Your favourite cartoon! | 71 comments (71 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

The Soviets were brilliant at animation.

When I was younger, a family from Czechoslovakia moved into our neighborhood. He was studying to be a filmmaker, doing animation. We shot a little film in his garage using these amazing puppets he'd brought with him. He had stacks and stacks of tapes of Czech and other Soviet animated shorts and even feature length movies. I'm at a loss to name even one of them, but they were all very fascinating. Dark, or just touching. With a very distinct style uncommon in the States, at least at that time.

Not sure where "cartoon" ends and "animation" begins, but I simply adore this little Russian film:

Yozhik v tumane:

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 11:50:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eastern Bloc (4.00 / 2)

I remember you posted that once before, but it is amazing on second watch, too.

In return, here is The Fly:

Czech and other Soviet

Is this some pun!? ;-)

We shot a little film in his garage using these amazing puppets he'd brought with him.

In terms of stop-and-go puppet animation, I think the far and wide best was the Czechoslovak series Pat & Mat - ...and it's done!. Cultural background: particularly in the Shortage Economy of the seventies-eighties, do-it-yourself was very in in the Eastern Bloc. So in this series, in every episode, the two neighbour heroes find some task to solve -- and go on ruining the entire house in their bold but totally unqualified attempts, until in the end they manage to put together something that's good for something (even if not for the original goal).

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 01:12:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eastern Bloc (none / 0)

I'm sorry. I don't understand the pun. Can you explain?

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 01:19:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eastern Bloc (none / 1)

You mean the last sentence? It is not a hidden reference. It's just that what the two cobblers end up with, usually doesn't look like anything properly made or designed, and isn't good for the task it was originally made for, just for some lesser task -- but the two guys can declare, as in the title, "...and it's done!".

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 01:41:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eastern Bloc (none / 0)

I mean

Czech and other Soviet
Is this some pun!? ;-)

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 01:43:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eastern Bloc (none / 0)

I think he wants to point out that Czech was not Soviet.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 03:44:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eastern Bloc (none / 1)

Ah, sorry. Forgot I was reading an old thread and missed the conversation continuing further down. Nevermind.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 03:46:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eastern Bloc (none / 0)

A cobbler is a shoemaker. You want to call the A je to! characters "builders" - at least in British usage.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 01:53:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eastern Bloc (none / 0)

But they're not professionals - in reality they're just "handymen" (for low values of "handy").

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 01:58:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eastern Bloc (none / 0)

cobbler - definition of cobbler by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.

1. One who mends or makes boots and shoes.2. Archaic One who is clumsy at work; a bungler.

I meant to use it in the bungler sense.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:17:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eastern Bloc (none / 0)

Okay, you got me there :P

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:21:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eastern Bloc (none / 0)

It says the bungler use is archaic, so I may have been off anyway. (I picked it as alternative from a dictionary because "bungler" somehow didn't feel right.)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:24:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eastern Bloc (none / 1)

There's the expression "to cobble together".

I'd say the best description of the A je to characters might be hapless handymen.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:26:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Eastern Bloc (none / 0)

Oh, no, you probably ask me about

Czech and other Soviet
Is this some pun!? ;-)

When you say Czech and other Soviet, you make Czechoslovakia part of the Soviet Union. Which, I thought, might have been some intentional pun I didn't get.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 01:47:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]

No, I don't. (none / 0)

Does one have to be formally a member of the USSR to qualify as Soviet? I mean, that may be. I don't know. I thought that being under Soviet control made you Soviet. But I obviously have no idea what I am talking about. What is the official term for all of those countries in central and eastern Europe and Eurasia and in that general part of the world who were under Communist rule and blocked off from the rest of the world during the Cold War in the mid to late 20th Century?

If Soviet Bloc is wrong because they were not in the USSR, and Eastern Bloc is wrong, since you like to point out that several of the countries are not in Eastern but Central Europe, and Communist Bloc is unhelpful because some Communist countries are not included (China, for example) in the thing we are talking about ... what is the proper term, please?

From wikipedia:

The terms Eastern Bloc, Communist Bloc or Soviet Bloc were used to refer to the former Communist states of Eastern and Central Europe, including the countries of the Warsaw Pact, along with Yugoslavia and Albania,[1][2] which were not aligned with the Soviet Union after 1948 and 1960 respectively.[3][4]

If this is a stupid exercise in PN, I'm not hanging around, but if there is a politically, geographically correct designation I should use, I'd like to know about it.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 02:46:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, I don't. (none / 0)

"Soviet bloc" is not the same as "Soviet".

Call it a stupid exercise in PN if you must.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:06:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, I don't. (none / 0)

Thanks for the clarification - it's honestly not a common distinction in my experience. Why are they distinct?

And what is the adjective I should use?

And I said, if.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:09:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

from my perspective (none / 1)

Soviet as an adjective would refer to things from the country (Soviet Union). So I'd have said, spontaneously, "Czech and other Soviet bloc cartoons", or "Czech and other Eastern European cartoons"

Eastern was used then; I think DoDo doesn't want it to be used now, because it had a political reality rather than a geographic one, and thus, as the political reality no longer exists, the expression should make no sense today.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:17:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: from my perspective (none / 0)

No; my point is [Eastern] Bloc <> [Eastern] Europe.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:21:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: from my perspective (none / 1)

So the issue is that I took the "bloc" to be inferred. Ok.

FWIW, Soviet is -wrongly or rightly- often used in reference to an aesthetic or culture or other intangibles and not simply in reference to a political entity. Which is why I don't "spontaneously" differentiate between the bloc and the Union when talking about aesthetic or culture or other intangibles.

Dodo doesn't like Eastern because it is technically in Central Europe.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:33:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: from my perspective (none / 1)

It can be a very sensitive issue.

I try to tread very carefully when using the word Soviet to describe...well...the countries formerly in the Soviet bloc, because I have a Polish sister in law who regards the Soviet period as a period of occupation. She is in her 50's now, and though I can empathise with some of the individual incidents she has related, it's hard for me even to imagine the cumulative effect of the atmosphere in which she grew up. It is extremely painful for her to hear Poland, to her ears, lumped in with the USSR.

You're right, we could use a less clumsy term for "countries that used to be in the former Soviet bloc with varying degrees of oppression and enthusiasm and aren't in the former Soviet bloc any more."

But in using Soviet as a geographical term, you're rubbing up against some fairly fresh historical wounds. I'm not telling you you can't (as if I'd dare), but it is a word that has the potential to carry a lot more emotional meaning for your reader than it does for you (or me).

by Sassafras on Sun Jun 14th, 2009 at 04:36:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: from my perspective (none / 1)

There can be that, but there is a much more basic and non-emotional problem: there should be a way to differentiate when you want to qualify something as "coming from the Soviet Bloc" and when you want to qualify it as "coming from the Soviet Union". (Methinks adding 'bloc' suffices.)

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Sun Jun 14th, 2009 at 07:20:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, I don't. (none / 0)

I think the Soviet Bloc was denoted Soviet the same way the Bush admin was Bush: named after its leader. John Ashcroft was not a Bush.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:19:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, I don't. (none / 0)

This comment doesn't make sense to me.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:33:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, I don't. (none / 0)

Does one have to be formally a member of the USSR to qualify as Soviet?

Well, there was a Hungarian Soviet, and some shorter-lived ones further West; but that was at the end of WWI. In theory (and if I am not mistaken, in the Russian meaning of the word), a Soviet is a Council Democracy. (As for practice...) However, the de facto Soviet-controlled states in the Warshaw Pact were usually called People's Republics.

What is the official term for all of those countries in central and eastern Europe and Eurasia and in that general part of the world who were under Communist rule and blocked off from the rest of the world during the Cold War in the mid to late 20th Century?

Those aligned with the Soviet Union (rather than China or going it alone) were officially the Warshaw Pact. Or, alternatively, in the economic sense, the Comecon. As an inofficial euphemism, it was also commonly called "Peace Camp" (in line with the rhetoric of the Imperialist Capitalist West being the war-drivers, see Korea and Vietnam). But I realise that in the West, in addition to "Eastern Bloc" and "Communist Bloc", there was "Soviet Bloc", too.

Eastern Bloc is wrong

No, I have a problem only with a mis-identification of Eastern Europe. As you can see upthread, I used Eastern Bloc myself!

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:14:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, I don't. (none / 0)

Warsaw Pact is used when discussing a political entity, and Comecon when discussing the economic entity. If I were talking about policy, I would have used one of these terms.

I was talking about cartoons.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:41:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, I don't. (none / 1)

Well, you asked about an "official term" -- there is no official term to cover all that was produced in different countries; though commonly the "Socialist" qualifier was used.

_{*Lunatic*, n.

One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

by DoDo on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:48:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: No, I don't. (none / 1)

See, someone should invent a word for it. :)

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:53:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]