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 ECONOMY & FINANCE 



Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 07:42:31 AM EST
Guardian 16 June 2009

Victims of Bernard Madoff's $65bn (£47bn) fraud poured vitriol on the disgraced financier today as they outlined the devastation he wreaked on their lives.

The judge handling the Madoff case received letters and emails from more than 100 former Madoff clients. Some urged the judge to sentence Madoff to life, at a hearing scheduled for 29 June. Others called him "a thief", "a monster", "a psychopathic, lying egomaniac".

Stephanie Halio, 67, said her health was suffering from the stress of having lost all her savings in Madoff's Ponzi scheme. "Please allow justice to be served by not allowing this monster to receive anything but the maximum sentence. If he were to go to jail for a thousand years it would not be enough to compensate for his crimes," Halio wrote.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:37:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"don't put all your eggs in the same basket"
"caveat emptor"

Some lessons seem never to be learnt.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 04:22:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If it sounds too good to be  true, it probably is.

Now where are we going and what's with the handbasket?
by budr on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 04:32:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I heard somewhere that Madoff's clients knew that he was doing SOMETHING illegal, insider information, something, but they didn't care as long as his ill deeds were ripping off OTHER people.  Ah, the irony.

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 05:01:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, i do hope that's true.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 05:04:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I heard somewhere that Madoff's clients knew that he was doing SOMETHING illegal...
I find it almost inconceivable that many, if not most, did not suspect that he was doing something shady.  Most are probably too discrete to admit this, as it might diminish their claim for recompense.  I suspect that many felt that their best bet was to pick the best scamster.  But they should have picked the best five, at a minimum.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 10:50:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
On the other hand, and just to be devil's advocate, the whole market was going up since 2002 or something...one would have seen most all other parts of one's portfolio rising, but the Madoff part even more...

...but, one would think, "Why not. He's the ex-freaking head of the Wall Street something and I am lucky to have my money with such a smart guy my cousin Lou tells me, and for once I can worry about other things besides my retirement."

Of course, not me. I was predicting doom and the end of the world as we know it for the entire bubble, thinking that the end of dot com bubble wasn't a large enough shake out by half...So, as proof of being a neutral devil's advocate, I missed everything.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 at 03:57:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There's also the problem that not all of his investors knew that they were investors.

If you handed over your cash to a broker, and the broker looked at Madoff's record and decided he was a good bet, it wouldn't have been a personal choice.

Not a few people seem to have become involved like this - sometimes with two or more levels of indirection.

A more interesting question is where all the money went. If the fund was worth $65bn, and Madoff was keeping most of the cash, that would have made him one of the richest people in the world.

He can't have lost all of it through personal speculation.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 at 04:23:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The money's gone to paty for the higher returns that investors DID get for many years. Those that were in for a long time didn't really lose money over the period, as they 'earned' more earlier - and probably used that money to live on, to quite an extent. The most recent entrants lost everything.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 at 05:01:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The fund was only worth $65bn in financial cyberspace, a place where real money is amplified a thousand times.

Those on Wall St and the City who were on the receiving end of the wealth capture cycle extracted the real money while everybody else was left looking at screens that depicted a representation of what their money would look like if it were real as well. When the Greenspan bubble burst, it was as if somebody pressed Delete and it all went away. But then again, it was never really there in the first place.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 at 05:01:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Guardian 16 June 2009

The recession has grounded millions of airline passengers, the Civil Aviation Authority said today, with figures showing a 13% drop in the number of people using UK airports.

Transatlantic travel is the biggest victim of the downturn, with numbers falling by 15% as the near-collapse of the banking industry hit traffic and the weak pound deterred tourists.

The British aviation watchdog said domestic travel also suffered, falling by 8.7%.

The largest market, from the UK to mainland Europe, fell by 7.3%, although it still accounts for more than half of all air journeys in the UK thanks to the enduring strength of the low-cost carriers Ryanair and easyJet.

But the economic downturn has improved punctuality and helped ease overcrowding at Britain's airports, which had previously earned worldwide notoriety for their packed departure lounges.

The first quarter of 2009 saw 6.4 million fewer passengers use UK airports than during the same period in 2008, according to the CAA, with the number of flights dropping by 50,000.




Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:45:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC: BA asks staff to work for nothing

British Airways is asking thousands of staff to work for nothing, for up to one month, to help the airline survive.

The appeal, sent by e-mail to more than 30,000 workers in the UK, asks them to volunteer for between one week and one month's unpaid leave, or unpaid work.

BA's chief executive Willie Walsh has already agreed to work unpaid in July, forgoing his month's salary of £61,000.

Last month, BA posted a record annual loss of £401m, partly due to higher fuel bills and other costs.

by Sassafras on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:54:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I could just about understand a request for workers willing to take unpaid leave but unpaid work?  If there is work to do and people are doing it, they should be paid.  

If there is not work to do and they work in Wales they can tap into Welsh Assembly short time working arrangements and receive training.  But England haven't caught up with that yet.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:59:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Independent: Work for free? No way, say BA unions

Union officials responded to a cost-saving offer from British Airways for staff to take unpaid leave by insisting today that their members cannot afford to work for free.

Chief executive Willie Walsh, who has already announced he will not draw his salary in July, announced that staff will be able to opt for one-week blocks of unpaid leave or unpaid work, with salary deductions spread over three to six months.

BA said: "This will help minimise the financial impact on individuals, while helping to immediately save cash for the business.

"The new unpaid work option means people can contribute to the cash-saving effort by coming to work while effectively volunteering for a small cut in base pay."

A spokesman for Unite said: "Willie Walsh can afford to work a month for free. Our members can't."
by Sassafras on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 12:36:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Sassafras on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 01:53:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If the company is in serious bad straits and this is seen as the only way to survive, then it might sound reasonable. Of course, then the workers should be given stock instead like in any dotcom with poor liquidity.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 at 04:44:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But we still need a thrid runway for Heathrow.. or ... or the world will end.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 04:00:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wonder how quickly BA would settle for the interest on the money required to build that runway?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 10:54:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EU Observer 16 June 2009

EUOBSERVER / BRUSSELS - European leaders added to the growing rhetoric on financial regulation on Tuesday (16 June) as the EU prepares for a leaders' summit later this week where the topic is likely to generate heated debate.

"By the end of this week, the European Council must give a clear mandate to the European Commission to start the urgent creation of two institutions," said Belgian Prime Minister Herman Van Rompuy.

"Firstly, a powerful and effective European Systemic and Risk Council centred around the European Central Bank. Secondly, a European system of supervisors having the power of binding mediation," he said.

Mr Van Pompuy was speaking at the launch of a Belgian report on a new financial architecture, whose drafting committee was chaired by the noted economist Alexandre Lamfalussy.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 12:00:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Reuters 16 June 2009

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The U.S. economy will not recover until the end of this year, and even then, growth will remain weak and vulnerable to higher interest rates and commodity prices, economist Nouriel Roubini said on Tuesday.

Speaking at the Reuters Investment Outlook Summit, the head of RGE Global Monitor dismissed the "green shoots" theory that a rebound is imminent, saying there was a significant risk of a "double-dip" recession, with the economy expanding only slightly, then beginning to contract again.

"To me it's more like yellow weeds," he said, pointing to continued weakness in industrial production.

Roubini, who rose to prominence for predicting the global credit crisis, said the U.S. jobless rate, already at a 26-year high of 9.4 percent, would reach 11 percent before it begins to ease. He added that he saw few engines for growth, given that U.S. consumers are tapped out.

Given this outlook, Roubini said Federal Reserve policy makers, whom he says completely missed the magnitude of the crisis at its inception, faced an unenviable set of policy choices.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 12:42:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Twighlight of the Double Dipper | Mish | 14 June 2009

Stay the Course (2009)

"A few months ago the U.S. economy was in danger of falling into depression. Aggressive monetary policy and deficit spending have, for the time being, averted that danger. And suddenly critics are demanding that we call the whole thing off, and revert to business as usual.

"Those demands should be ignored. It's much too soon to give up on policies that have, at most, pulled us a few inches back from the edge of the abyss."

Dubya's Double Dip (2002)

"The basic point is that the recession of 2001 wasn't a typical postwar slump, brought on when an inflation-fighting Fed raises interest rates and easily ended by a snapback in housing and consumer spending when the Fed brings rates back down again. This was a prewar-style recession, a morning after brought on by irrational exuberance. To fight this recession the Fed needs more than a snapback; it needs soaring household spending to offset moribund business investment. And to do that, as Paul McCulley of Pimco put it, Alan Greenspan needs to create a housing bubble to replace the Nasdaq bubble."

There's a tell. And a tip for investors. In case they hadn't noticed the ramp up to "nationalized" health insurance spending ... on taxable benefits... which could be deferred ...

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 03:12:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I doubt that healthcare, or even social security, can create a bubble big enough to alleviate the damage of the last one bursting, though.

No way out, this time.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 04:36:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
over at dKos:
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/6/16/743258/-Krugman-blasts-Krugman


In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 05:28:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"pre_war recession"

J, you wag! Which one?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 08:04:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
m'K. BBs, no "silver bullet."
$650B Health Reserve Fund is an awful lot o' feed-in to waste. The Health Insurance Exchange looks like guaranteed income to me. Here's a sample of the "Say What?" GSE prospectus.

Another way we can achieve savings is by reducing payments to hospitals for treating uninsured people. I know hospitals rely on these payments now, legitimately, because of the large number of uninsured patients that they treat. But if we put in a system where people have coverage and the number of uninsured people goes down with our reforms, the amount we pay hospitals to treat uninsured people should go down, as well. Reducing these payments gradually, as more and more people have coverage, will save us over $106 billion. And we'll make sure the difference goes to the hospitals that need it most.

Now, if the bank holding companies don't want Fed VC assistance to enter a newly "sterlized" insurance industry in a "modernized regulatory" framework...

There's alwaysssss carbon credit trading! The vultures are getting more sassy by the day. Can you believe this shit? Passive CO2 capture tied to RE value -- a nice investment opportunity, if you're not ground-floor at FuturGen Alliance.

Sandor Got Obama's Nod for Chicago-Style Climate Law

The carbon credits in question involve agricultural projects that reduce CO2 in the atmosphere by planting trees or not tilling cropland. Emissions avoided through such methods are represented by carbon credits that can be traded.

Oh, there's more to the article. Mr Dick "Swaps" Sandor is quite a character. I first read about Sandor hooked up with Pershing (1998), shopping Brazil forests (2000) and CCX (Gore et al). He's totally connected.


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 07:53:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama sends country SOS, seems like to me.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 11:16:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Roubini expects a weak recovery and not an impending fireball of utter doom?

There's news.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 03:37:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, the market tested its ability to pass 8900 again, and failed.

But with such good news that the economy will be merely weak, and unemployment only slightly worse, and the foreclosure rate falling less rapidly and the dollar weaker by only another 10% to the euro, I predict Dow 10,000 and more. Gravy Train for everyone~!

</wishing it were snark>

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 at 04:19:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Telegraph: UK's 'real' inflation falls to minus 10pc

While the official rate of inflation is now 2.2pc on the Government's preferred measure, the CPI, and minus 1.1pc on its old scale, the RPI, it has fallen deeply into negative territory on the most recent Real Cost of Living Index (RCLI), which stands at minus 10.3pc.

The dramatic fall in the cost of a typical family's weekly essentials has been driven by sharp declines in mortgage costs since last year, while petrol and diesel are also much cheaper than a year ago.

by Sassafras on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 12:46:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
how some indices which were summarily dismissed during the boom times as too negative (this one showed massively higher inflation than the headline figures) suddenly attract interest today...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 04:37:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just wait until there's a slight uptick for the usual barrage of comments about unsustainable wage inflation as soon as someone ask for a pay rise.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 at 04:25:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reuters 16 June 2009

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is negotiating a deal with Washington under which Israeli building in existing Jewish settlements could go forward in certain cases, Israeli and Western officials said on Tuesday.

In talks with U.S. President Barack Obama's Middle East envoy, Netanyahu has asserted that his government does not have the legal authority to stop building in cases in which tenders for new structures have already been awarded or when homes under construction have already been purchased.



Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 12:48:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll give you legal authority, you schmuck.

Start with the Geneva Protocols concerning the rights of the people that you have displaced by violence and read a few more chapters on the rights of those under occupation, as well as your responsibilities which you have so blithely stood on end for 6 decades.

"My government doesn't have legal authority to stop building because that would violate contract law"

The great truths in the hands of of the great liars...indeed.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 at 04:46:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
AIG says former top exec plundered retirement plan  AP

NEW YORK -- The former top executive of American International Group Inc. plundered an AIG retirement program of billions of dollars because he was angry at being forced out of the company, a lawyer for AIG told jurors today at the start of a civil trial.

Attorney Theodore Wells told the jury in Manhattan that former AIG Chief Executive Officer Maurice "Hank" Greenberg improperly took $4.3 billion in stock from the company in 2005, after he was ousted by the company amid investigations of accounting irregularities.

"Hank Greenberg was mad. He was angry," Wells said in U.S. District Court of the emotional state of the man who, over a 35-year-career, built AIG from a small company into the world's largest insurance provider. He said the saga is a story of "anger, betrayal and cover-up."

Wells said that Greenberg, within weeks of being forced out in mid-2005, gave the go-ahead for tens of millions of shares to be sold from a trust fund. The fund was set up to provide incentive bonuses to a select group of AIG management and highly compensated employees that they would receive upon their retirement.


Well, it was only the $4.3 billion set aside for the top guys.  Wonder what the gov. will do if it gets the money back.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 01:51:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what I wanna know is, if he'd been kicked out, how come he was in any position to authorise this sale ?

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 04:27:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
From further down in the link:
Greenberg, 84, has contended through his lawyers that he had the right to sell the shares because they were owned by Starr International, a privately held company he controlled.

Greenberg's lawyer, David Boies, told the jury in his opening statement that the shares sold by his client did not belong to AIG.

"I disagree with a great many things that Mr. Wells said," Boies told the jury. He said a study of the documents in the case would prove that the shares sold by Greenberg did not belong to AIG.


It should be interesting.  David Boies is a real heavy weight defense attorney.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 07:08:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Am I the only one wondering how it's possible for this to become a legal issue?

How can a company the size of AIG not know for sure who owned the shares? (Unless there was a fraudulent transfer of ownership?)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 at 04:27:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
was, despite its huge size, a one-man show - Greenberg's. He was kicked out in the end, but the transition was not smooth and he knew more about the company from the outside than the insiders, given that he had built it up.

Funnily enough, France's biggest insurer, AXA, was also a one-man show, being built up from a very small local insurer in Normandy into the behemoth it is by Claude Bébéar, but at least he handed over the reins to others in a more controlled and transparent fashion.

But I still fidn it amazing that two of the biggest companies in the world, controlling trillions of money, were essentially controlled by one guy each for a very long time.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 at 05:05:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It so happened that I found out recently that one of the bigger insurance companies in the Netherlands, Delta Lloyd, is run by a not so large group of elderly men who just started things on the fly... I guess it happens.
by Nomad on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 at 08:08:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jerome
Because AIG was, despite its huge size, a one-man show - Greenberg's. He was kicked out in the end, but the transition was not smooth and he knew more about the company from the outside than the insiders, given that he had built it up.

Brief history:

AIG history dates back to 1919, when Cornelius Vander Starr established an insurance agency in Shanghai, China. Starr was the first Westerner in Shanghai to sell insurance to the Chinese, which he continued to do until AIG left China in early 1949--as Mao Zedong led the advance of the Communist People's Liberation Army on Shanghai. Starr then moved the company headquarters to its current home in New York City. The company went on to expand, often through subsidiaries, into other markets, including other parts of Asia, Latin America, Europe, and the Middle East.

In 1962, Starr gave management of the company's lagging U.S. holdings to Maurice R. "Hank" Greenberg, who shifted its focus from personal insurance to high-margin corporate coverage. Greenberg focused on selling insurance through independent brokers rather than agents to eliminate agent salaries. Using brokers, AIG could price insurance according to its potential return even if it suffered decreased sales of certain products for great lengths of time with very little extra expense. In 1968, Starr named Greenberg his successor. The company went public in 1969.


Through "the magic of the market" the "greater fool" becomes the US taxpayer.


As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 at 08:43:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
GM to sell Saab to Swedish carmaker Koenigsegg Group
The deal unloads the last major brand the bankrupt automaker had on the block. The price was not disclosed.
By Ken Bensinger, Los Angeles Times

Bankrupt General Motors Corp. has found a buyer for Saab, unloading the last major piece of the shrinking automaker's empire that had been on the block.

The brand will be bought by Swedish carmaker Koenigsegg Group, known for making $1.2-million super-cars that can top 240 mph.

A price was not disclosed, although GM said the acquisition would be bolstered by $600 million in financing from the European Investment Bank, backed by the government of Sweden. GM said it would provide additional support to help Koenigsegg take over Saab and complete work on vehicles in development.

"This is yet another significant step in the reinvention of GM and its European operations," said Carl-Peter Forster, president of GM Europe. "Closing this deal represents the best chance for Saab to emerge a stronger company."

...

Koenigsegg, founded in 1994 by Christian von Koenigsegg, makes the CCX, a super-car capable of speeds well over 200 mph, as well as the CCXR, which runs on ethanol and produces 1,018 horsepower.

by Magnifico on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 03:11:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Koenigsegg had 45 employees at last count, and sold 20 or so cars...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 16th, 2009 at 04:39:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
SAAB makes more cars everyday than Koenigsegg has done through its entire history.

You're not getting away from the fact that far more cars are built every year than consumers want to buy. Some companies and factories gotta go, and SAAB not having turned a profit during my entire lifetime (and just a handful of years in its 60 year lifetime) is a prime victim for the chopping block.

My bet is that this will go to hell.


Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 at 12:27:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
well, SAAB has a kind of cult-like following by its customers, so an Apple-style rebirth is not completely impossible - but not by any means guaranteed, of course...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 at 05:06:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We can only hope that it turns around and I wish the entrepeneurs all luck, but I'm happy my tax money is not invested. I'd much rather own shares in PSA Peugeot Citroën.

SAAB has not made money during my entire life. The last time they turned a profit was in the summer of 1985 IIRC. Thr only reason they've survived since 1990 is 'cos GM has pumped money into it, covering losses every year.

Before they were bought by GM, SAAB Automobile was supported by their owners, the Wallenberg family, to keep the soc dems happy. They could afford this because the aerospace/arms and truck divisions (now separate companies) have always been profitable, and one doesn't have to be a genius to understand that keeping the car factories running at a loss might well result in some more juicy fighter bomber contracts...

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Wed Jun 17th, 2009 at 05:25:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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