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I know France is not America.  But I can guarantee you that France will continue to experience much greater difficulties integrating their Muslim population than America experiences so long as they carry on with these childish games about how people dress.  

That's a pretty shallow assessment of the differences, which I suspect have more to do with economic status and background than anything else.

Mind you, I find the aggressive secularism counter-productive, but for different reasons: suppression of religion by force seldom produces the result you want.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 at 01:58:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
economic status is part of it.  But despite some post-9/11 incidents and scattered acts, Muslims face very few problems here.  They don't face much job or housing discrimination, and they find extremely easy to go into business on their own and attract patrons.  They must put it with unpleasant rhetoric and an unfortunate foreign policy that they feel hard-pressed to openly criticize.  Things are not perfect, and some areas of the country have no Muslims whatsoever, and for a good reason.  But, you never ever hear stories about problems with schools or assimilation.  They practice their religion freely (although they should expect some surveillance) and haven't, as a group, committed any notable violence.  Crime is not an issue.  Neighborhoods are not segregated, although there are enclaves that are very heavily Muslim.  

It's nothing like what goes on in Europe, and the respect they are shown has a lot to do with it.  

by BooMan on Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 at 02:40:55 AM EST
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BooMan:
what goes on in Europe

???

What does go on in Europe?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 at 02:45:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Really bad parking outside the church converted to a mosque in the city centre on a Friday afternoon?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 at 02:52:45 AM EST
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Malta is, of course, part of Europe...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 at 03:03:51 AM EST
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BooMan:
Neighborhoods are not segregated, although there are enclaves that are very heavily Muslim.  
Apparently in Europe we have segregated neighbourhoods, whereas in the US they have "heavily Muslim enclaves".

When I was in London I spent 4 years in a "heavily Muslim enclave" (my landlord, my next-door neighbours and my hairdresser, greengrocer, newsagent, post office clerk, convenience store owner... for the last 3 years, and one of my three local Councillors, were Pakistani). However it was not a "segregated neighbourhood".

Is this a case of "I have enclaves, you have segregated neighbourhoods, he has ghettos"?

Madrid also has "heavily Muslim enclaves" but I am not aware of "segregated neighbourhoods" either. Does Paris have "segregated neighbourhoods"?

A man of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds; a man of deeds and not of words is like a garden full of turds — Anonymous

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 at 04:20:00 AM EST
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Apparently in Europe we have segregated neighbourhoods, whereas in the US they have "heavily Muslim enclaves".

Yes, sort of like how in Yurp you have "used cars" while in America we have "pre-owned vehicles".

;)

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin

by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 at 03:16:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
BooMan:
It's nothing like what goes on in Europe
When was the last time you lived in Europe? What are your sources?

A man of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds; a man of deeds and not of words is like a garden full of turds — Anonymous
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 23rd, 2009 at 04:21:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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