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The $13 trillion do mean somrthing: it's the size of the financial world losses that are being hidden, or taken over, by taxpayers.

That's money spent by the rich that is going to be repaid by all rather than by those that enjoyed it.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 12:20:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
...to recover the riches we paid for, hey...

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 01:50:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The term you are looking for is "confiscate."

"Expropriate" implies compensation, which is counterproductive in this case.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 at 07:19:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Certainly  I want to confiscate... Seems to me ex-propriate was pretty clear, but OK...

Patrice Ayme Patriceayme.com Patriceayme.wordpress.com http://tyranosopher.blogspot.com/
by Patrice Ayme on Thu Jun 4th, 2009 at 07:18:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Buying shitpile at market would have been "expropiation", but it would also have bankrupted the banks because the market value was too low.

So instead shitpile is being bought from them at notional values... Ugh.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 05:21:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But, like I mentioned above, it's not really $13 trillion.  Of the $13 trillion committed by political authorities in the US, only $4.1 trillion has actually been spent.  Looking at the Bloomberg article you linked to above, it looks unlikely that much more of that committed amount ever will be spent. Only $1.7 trillion of the $7.6 trillion committed by the Fed has been spent so far, and when you look at the line items with committments outstanding, I just don't see where they are likely to be used. The FDIC commitments will also largely go unused as there are few remaining opportunities for major bankruptcies in American banks to use up that $2 trillion dollar commitment.  Only the fiscal part of this -- the US treasury -- is likely to be used and also increased in subsequent years.  That's the tax and borrow part, not the inflationary monetary expansion part.

So monetary expansion has been, and I think will continue to be, quite modest and still probably results in a net decrease in total public and private credit and purchasing power available to capitalists -- still a deflationary situation regarding asset prices.  

I think you have your banker hat on here when you should be using your economist hat.  Balance sheet entries do not say much about true levels of real goods and services, counterparty confidence, and purchasing power in an economy.  That requires economic intuition, not accounting intuition which you appear to be relying on too closely with this diary.  It's the same mistake conservatives like Merkel are making.  

That said, I think you're alluding to valid criticism of overspending in general and that is that it probably does matter what public funds are spent on, something that most Keynesian liberals don't accept.  Spending on investments that will save energy costs and increase human and social capital through education and institutional/infrastructure development and maintenance are likely to reduce future inflation rather than add to it.  There is some truth to the conservative point that the American economy recovered without inflation after WWII largely because its risky investment in destroying the rest of planet's capital paid off in a big way -- it was a major investment with quantifiable returns, not just digging holes as Keynes suggested was sufficient.

by santiago on Wed Jun 3rd, 2009 at 02:01:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This is nonsense. If the 13 trillion aren't really 13 trillion, then why bother making such a commitment in the first place?

You're arguing like a gambler who puts his house on the poker table but tells everyone it's just for show, as it's practically impossible that he could lose this round.



--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 05:19:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's for show. It's a way of saying 'Yes, we're good for this. No crisis is so big we can't afford to handle it.'

Which means people will keep buying the IOUs. For now.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 07:17:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem with this crisis are the IOUs in the first place. Too many people have issued IOUs, and can't repay them. Now the "solution" has been to issue further taxpayer IOUs to cover these bad IOUs. The lie is that these taxpayer funded IOUs are somehow fake or worthless.

Ask youself who is stupider: investors and creditors who accept worthless pretend IOUs to cover known bad IOUs, or taxpayers who believe that the IOUs their government has issued in their name are fake and will never be paid out when asked.

You can't have it both ways, either you "solve" the problem with real IOUs, or you issue fake IOUs and "solve" nothing, since everyone knows they aren't worth anything.

The point of real IOUs is that there is real risk attached to them. It doesn't do to hope that things will work out without anybody requiring payment.

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Fri Jun 5th, 2009 at 08:22:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As you know, the betting strategy with the highest probability of winning in the end is "double or nothing".

It is, on average, a losing strategy, but if you're going to gamble...

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buitler

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 05:22:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
the expectation of gain, is like other strategies, exactly zero. What you presumably mean is that you get a (n-1)/n chance of "winning" 1, by betting n, with n being an exponential of 2 (and a 1/n chance of losing n)

So the question, as expected, is whether you win before you run out of liquidity...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Jun 7th, 2009 at 08:24:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You're both right. It's true that the probability of winning 1 more than the initial amount in your pocket is 1 (ie certain), and in fact it is certain that this will occur within a finite number of bets. Moreover, by changing the monetary units, or by increasing the rate of growth of the bets, even bigger amounts can be won per bet, so the probability is maximal but the strategy is of course not unique.

However, the expected number of bets to achieve the outcome is infinite, since the strategy is nonintegrable, and while one game might(!) let you win 1 with certainty, in repeated games you will run out of money, or if you have infinite funds, you will fail to achieve any strictly positive rate of winnings in the long run (and depending on how you compute the rate of winnings, you could fail to achieve any finite negative rate of winnings either, ie the losses can't be usefully limited).

--
$E(X_t|F_s) = X_s,\quad t > s$

by martingale on Mon Jun 8th, 2009 at 05:12:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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