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when reading through some of the comments about the burka and wearing scarves, I remembered that there was a time when wearing scarves was cool and fashionable. There was even a Grace Kelly style of wearing scarves. I posted some pictures here. When did the scrave become un-cool in the west?

While looking for the pictures I also found the following:

Historical Use of Women's Scarves

A scarf is widely worn by a woman from all parts of the world whether related to a certain religion or as part of a fashion garment. A scarf is a piece of cloth that is used as protection or as fashion or as a religious veil.   

The scarf is different in name and in description depending on the religion. It symbolizes sanctity, character and modesty. Both men and women alike wear scarves either as turbans or veils as part of the religious attire. The Muslims, for instance, wear a head scarf specifically by the women and known also as hijab. This hijab serves as a curtain that enables the women to her privacy.  The Catholics wear veils to cover the heads and symbolizes holiness. In Tibet, the scarves serve as a protective accessory and were used by the pilots so as to avoid in breathing the exhaust fumes. 

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Entertainment came into the picture when scarves were included in the glamour and spotlight of showbiz. It is when the likes of Greta Garbo and Grace Kelley wore scarves in a stylish way and was shown on the different movies. These scarves in fashion were made from different fabrics like cotton, silk, wool, rayon and even the synthetic nylons scarves are put around the neck and head as it is very light.

Maybe as I still have some of those scarves, I should wear one for the ET-Meetup? :-) Paris is often windy enough to make it comfortable to wear.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 10:50:45 AM EST
I have always suspected the fashion scarf evolved out of the piety scarf. Largely because they weren't well known in the UK and so I always associated it with catholic cultures. Especially when you note that they started off dark with pattern and then became progressively lighter as society threw off older cutural shackles.

Italian and French style  were also v v fashionable in 50s which is where the rest of the western world caught the idea.

But in the 60s theCalifornian beach style of free hair became the icon and scarves were dispensed with except in rich high fashion circles of Jackie Onassis etc.

But hiding the hair, in any society, is a form of  control that is imposed within a patriarchal tradition, even if it is the women who end up policing conformity. And guess what ? I'm agin it.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:32:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's also been popular for men, on and off. What decent man would have been seen outdoors without a hat? There's a lot more going on there than   patriarchal control.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:39:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
On Ilkla Mooar baht 'at
On Ilkla Mooar baht 'at
On Ilkla Mooar baht 'at

Tha's bahn' to catch thy deeath o` cowd
Then we shall ha' to bury thee
Then t'worms'll come an` eyt thee up

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:43:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But see my comment below.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:56:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But that's not for hiding hair - it's for hiding the lack of it.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 03:24:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but I think one reason the scarfe was a fashionable in Italy and other countries in the 50s and 60s was probably the Vespa and the convertible, were it was just a good way to protect your hair and keep it out of your face.

It is interesting that there is rarely any talk about the women of conservative jews covering their hair. I had my office in near the synagoge and I was always wondering why so many of the jewish women were wearing wigs. Until somebody told me that they were not allowed to go outside with there head uncovered.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:43:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The fascinating thing being that a wig counts as hair covering.

A man of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds; a man of deeds and not of words is like a garden full of turds — Anonymous
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:52:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As in "wear your wig-hat on your head."

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 02:20:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
This only applies to married women.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 03:26:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen:
I have always suspected the fashion scarf evolved out of the piety scarf.
Indeedy: the following are Iranians in a Tehran café
from the must-read diary Free minds, not hair. by the stormy present on January 16th, 2007

A man of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds; a man of deeds and not of words is like a garden full of turds — Anonymous
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:51:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Slavery to fashion AND male sexual insecurity!

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 12:08:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Many headscarves in Istanbul?

A man of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds; a man of deeds and not of words is like a garden full of turds — Anonymous
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 12:11:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd say 5 to 15% (hard to gauge since I am biased towards the commercial and tourist districts but I have left them several times). Everyone else dresses like fashionable Europeans. (After two months in India I feel like a young Indian guy making his first visit to a European beach.)

Of those wearing the scarf, none show any skin beyond face and hands, which makes sense to me, as the concept at least on the surface seems be be whittled down to conservative muslims. About half wear full length coats, of those about half appear fashionable, the other half (more common among older women) wear drab gray wool Soviet-Russia looking coats. The other half wear long skirts with long baggy tops. I've seen a statistically insignificant number of women with the Saudi style get up (which still does and always will creep me out).

In Malaysia, the Malay women pay lip service to the whole idea - underneath they wear black, skin-tight full length tights and shirts, and over that wear what they would wear otherwise, usually short skirts and tops with very short sleeves.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 12:24:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you're right about the Christian origin, and it isn't only Catholic. My SO and I were talking about it, and we said we had each seen a change since our childhood in the 1950s, when it was inconceivable that a woman enter church (RC in her upbringing, Protestant in mine) without a head covering - a scarf or a hat. This is not as strict an unspoken rule today.

And the biblical injunction on which this was based?

St Paul, 1 Corinthians, King James version

3: But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
4: Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.
5: But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.
6: For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
7: For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.
8: For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.
9: Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.
...
13: Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
14: Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?
15: But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

And what was this a fashionable fossil form of?


by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:55:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reading the biblical injunction closely, it is utter nonsense. None of the statements are logically justified.

It's more likely Paul is reflecting pre-existing eastern Mediterranean mores.

A man of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds; a man of deeds and not of words is like a garden full of turds — Anonymous

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:58:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Of course he is, and providing them with the trappings of the new religion. All three religions - judeo-christian-muslim - have maintained patrirchal traditions of the semitic peoples in this way. This is why, imo, the hijab/niqab/burqa controversy is not properly speaking to do with religion.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 12:02:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And that's the issue with the burka finally, its imposition is merely cultural, but is defended as if it is a religious requirement.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 01:47:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it's what clouds the issue. The burqa is not an issue of freedom of religion, any more than excision, arranged marriages, and polygamy are. (Disclaimer: I'm not conflating these with the burqa).
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jun 26th, 2009 at 02:07:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When I was little I thought women wore head scarves to keep their hair from blowing in the wind.  Of course, back then I thought women were weaker, less intelligent, less practical, and more emotional than men.  And back then I had never heard of a hijab or a burka, or that a woman should walk ten paces behind her man, or that a woman should submit without question to the authority of her father/grandfather/husband/uncle/brother/priest.  I didn't know patriarchal societies cast women in that role.  I thought they were just made that way.  I thought everyone knew that.

Now where are we going and what's with the handbasket?
by budr on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:46:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
budr:
I didn't know patriarchal societies cast women in that role.  I thought they were just made that way.  I thought everyone knew that.
Priceless...

A man of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds; a man of deeds and not of words is like a garden full of turds — Anonymous
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:53:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And now you know better?! :-D
by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:55:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, I like to think so...

Now where are we going and what's with the handbasket?
by budr on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 12:43:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
back then I thought women were weaker, less intelligent, less practical, and more emotional than men.

Ha !! You obviously never met my mother.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 01:45:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Scarves went the way of hats in general.  Maybe they will make a comeback?
by jjellin on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 11:51:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But anyone who is anyone wears a scarf around their necks these days.  I first noticed it in Europe, and came back all Euro-ed out with a scarf tied around my neck.  Now, you're a suit if you don't have a scarf around your neck.  Universal signifier of the lefty, intellectual, artistic, hipster or fashionista class.  

Dress is a form of self-expression, and I am all about freedom of expression.  Even when I don't agree with what is being expressed.  You know, what Voltaire might have said, but didn't actually say...

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 12:21:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There's a fashion discussion - and where's Izzy???

"Once in awhile we get shown the light, in the strangest of places, if we look at it right" - Hunter/Garcia
by whataboutbob on Thu Jun 25th, 2009 at 02:08:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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