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that Taibbi weakens his main point (Goldman's extraordinary influence on US policy, used to its advantage way beyond what is proper) by using some exemples which are not quite right. I can't comment on the 1929 exemple, but his take on the oil price spike of last year is almost completely wrong in my view, and his take on the cap-and-trade agreement is also highly partial, I'd say.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes
by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Sun Jun 28th, 2009 at 04:56:19 PM EST
Ummm...well I think he misunderstands the mechanism, but my take on it is that Goldman were up to their neck in the spike, or large volatility.

Firstly they allegedly screwed SemGroup

Did Goldman Goose Oil

which would probably account for the pinnacle of the spike.

Secondly, I reckon that in all likelihihood they've been in bed with BP for many years on a similar scale to what Hamanaka got up to for ten years in copper, as was brilliantly described here

Modern Market Manipulation

There's a very interesting argument I recently came across concerning the relationship between commodities and the yield curve

The Commodity Conundrum

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Sun Jun 28th, 2009 at 07:16:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Chris, I'm interested to hear your take on why oil prices skyrocketed last year and came crashing down, and on what you think is driving the current reinflation.

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Fri Jul 3rd, 2009 at 10:13:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
that maybe BP is able to lean on Goldman Sachs GSCI fund to underpin the BFOE (Brent) benchmark price via Goldman's J Aron trading arm as an intermediary.

I think that the history of the BP/Goldman informal understanding/ partnership of the last fifteen years or so was firstly from the mid 90s to create excessive volatility in the market, and profit from that, combined with superior, and possibly (at high level) shared, knowledge of the physical/OTC market.

When hedge funds became price makers in the market in maybe 2002/3, Goldman and Morgan Stanley had already built the dominant (and opaque) ICE trading platform, and were far and away the biggest in prime brokerage.

While MS bought their own storage etc, which gave them the ability to operate in the physical market, I would imagine that it was Goldman's understanding with BP which gave them a parallel trading presence, by proxy.

Goldman have knowledge of fund order flow and positions from their prime brokerage, while when BP sold off most of their North Sea production they cannily retained ownership of the pipeline network, so they would have pretty good knowledge of North Sea loading schedules and storage levels.

Of course, the hedge fund trading business isn't what it was, but the flow in recent years of money into "less risky" exchange traded funds invested in oil and gas etc is IMHO what is behind the latest strategy.

Provided investors believe the Goldman hype (which never stops) then they'll keep lending money to the market and will continue to be "date raped"

Goldman Sachs' Magic Commodity Box

when they roll positions over month to month.

In terms of market manipulation, the BFOE market is too complex and opaque to know what exactly has been and is going on, but in substance I suspect that BP are able to utilise GSCI money to keep the BFOE price artificially high.

It doesn't actually take that much money to do it - as I pointed out to the UK parliament's Treasury Select Committee last year - and losses made on a few cargoes would be offset by profits made on everything else priced against the benchmark.

Although this won't play well with the US politicos who balme the futures markets, the NYMEX contract is now pretty irrelevant to global prices, due to the massive amount of Brent/WTI arbitrage.

Btw. The word I heard about the

PVM rogue trader

the other night was that his trading may well have been connected with such arbitrage games, and maybe attempts to trigger big "stop loss" orders on the ICE trading system.

I digress. The point is that although most financial traders have to pay big money for storage, BP and Goldman's unwitting fund customers between them are maybe able to monetise BP's oil in the ground, where the storage cost is zero.

The oil producers certainly aren't going to complain about excessively high prices, and of course none of this is visible to the rest of the market, in the same way that Hamanaka was able to keep his copper manipulation secret for years.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Fri Jul 3rd, 2009 at 05:35:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Did oil prices actually go up last Summer?  Did they go up in Europe?  I saw the dollar drop like a rock against the euro and everything else because of the financial crisis here, which at first looked like a US problem, and import prices shot through the roof.  Then we all realized that everyone was up to their necks in it, all other currencies raced down to the dollar, and prices here got back into line.
by rifek on Sun Jul 5th, 2009 at 02:17:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They did go up. Not by as much, but they did go up.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jul 5th, 2009 at 02:48:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They didn't more than double, though.  The difference was the currency flux.  Oil was a purer play here in the US than ag commodities, though.  We're used to being an oil importer; we're still getting used to being a food importer.
by rifek on Sun Jul 5th, 2009 at 03:14:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Could you elaborate?

Conservatives want live babies so they can raise them to be dead soldiers. - George Carlin
by Drew J Jones (myfriends@thisispancakes.com) on Fri Jul 3rd, 2009 at 09:50:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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