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_   2. What the hell do the courts have to do with it? Isn't it a private matter, or are masonic lodges government authorities in the US?_

Well, first of all, since the Civil Rights Act of 1964, discrimination by private actors is illegal in the US. Private clubs are excepted but they're not really well defined.

Secondly, do you really find it strange that a dispute between private actors can end up in court? I realize that the US and Swedish legal cultures are different, but still...

by MarekNYC on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 12:41:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it's really weird. If I start a private club, I have the right to deny admittance to anyone I feel like, no matter their race, colour or creed. Just because it's my club.

If it's a commercial facility (like a store or reastaurant) the situation is obviously different.

Then we have the social dimension. Why does this army reservist want to be in a club that doesn't want him because they're a bunch of racists? Does he think it'll be fun to be in that club, especially after he's taken them to court?

I mean, taking someone to court is just another way of saying "I hate you and you are a criminal". It's hard to imagine a more efficient way to insult someone than taking him to court.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 05:14:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Starvid:
Why does this army reservist want to be in a club that doesn't want him because they're a bunch of racists? Does he think it'll be fun to be in that club, especially after he's taken them to court?
But that's not what the court case is about. The case is over
some lodges in Georgia [seeking] to revoke the charter of one in Atlanta for admitting ... a[n] African-American


A man of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds; a man of deeds and not of words is like a garden full of turds — Anonymous
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 05:36:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And the reservists hasn't taken the lodges to court. His lodge has taken to court some other lodges which objected to it having admitted the reservist.

A man of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds; a man of deeds and not of words is like a garden full of turds — Anonymous
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 06:04:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Argh. Must read closer next time. Please do ignore my previous confused ramblings.

But uh, why do they need to go to court to revoke their "charter"? Isn't that an internal issue either for every specific lodge to decide upon, or for the central/national lodge, if there is such a thing?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 08:29:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The Atlanta lodge is going to court to pre-empt the "Masonic trial" that other members have managed to convene with the intention of possibly expelling them.

I wonder whether taking internal differences to the outside courts wouldn't be a violation of Masonic rules... Maybe JD can comment?

A man of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds; a man of deeds and not of words is like a garden full of turds — Anonymous

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 5th, 2009 at 04:36:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As I understand it each lodge makes the individual membership decisions, this one was happy to accept an AA as a member. The state organisation to which it belongs then tried to effectively shut them down, and the lodge, (not the AA member) sued.  IANAL, but I believe that the private club exception becomes harder to sustain for associations than for discrete individual groups.

I mean, taking someone to court is just another way of saying "I hate you and you are a criminal". It's hard to imagine a more efficient way to insult someone than taking him to court.

Are you seriously saying that contract disputes in Sweden don't end up in court when negotiations break down? Here you have one organization exercising its perogative to choose its members, and its parent organisation saying, no, you can't admit this specific person because he's black, and we're going to punish you. Talks went nowhere, so it's in court.  

If I start a private club, I have the right to deny admittance to anyone I feel like, no matter their race, colour or creed. Just because it's my club.

The question is, if you say that anybody meeting a certain set of criteria can apply to join, can those criteria include things like race, gender, creed, or orientation?  In America, as I said things seem to be a bit muddied on this issue. Personally I think that other than political or religious groups, the answer should be no.  

Why does this army reservist want to be in a club that doesn't want him because they're a bunch of racists? Does he think it'll be fun to be in that club, especially after he's taken them to court?

I take it you're a member of the traditionally dominant racial/gender group in your country?  Pace JD, such 'private' clubs have always been a nexus for networking and dealmaking. This is true whether we're talking golf, Masons, or cigars. (If you think all those junior white collar types at the corporate country club outing are there for the pleasure of golf, then I have a very pretty bridge with great brand value to sell you.) Allowing them to remain exclusively white male serves to perpetuate the existing racial and gender hierarchy in society by making it harder for others to get jobs and business.

by MarekNYC on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 06:22:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The state organisation to which it belongs then tried to effectively shut them down, and the lodge, (not the AA member) sued.
Actually, from the Guardian article it appears the State Organization actually defended the Atlanta lodge initially, though it agreed to hear the complaint
The grand master, or leader of the Masons in Georgia, J Edward Jennings Jr, sent an email to members saying that Marshall was a legitimate member and should be treated as such. But that did not quell the row.

Under pressure, Jennings agreed to convene a Masons court to hear a complaint against the head of the Atlanta lodge, Michael Bjelajac, who is accused of violating "moral law", the "ancient landmarks" and "immemorial usages" of Freemasonry by admitting Marshall.

But the complaint has met with ridicule in part because there are largely black Masonic lodges in the US as well as in African countries such as Ghana.



A man of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds; a man of deeds and not of words is like a garden full of turds — Anonymous
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 08:04:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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