Display:
Considering that their campaign clearly set out to make Lisbon synonymous with the EU and with 'anti-democratic Brussels bureaucrats' I'm not sure how they were pro-EU, exactly. Except perhaps in a very nominal and completely dishonest way.

I don't understand British jingo-ism. But all of the Anglo countries, and some of the former Soviet countries, do seem to have some psychological characteristics in common - not least of which is an unwillingness to share or compromise.

It's a peculiar but very obvious insularity. The Brits simply don't see themselves as part of Europe, and consider the EU Project an attempt to undermine and destroy their precious sovereignty.

I think - so far as I can tell - that this is more of an English thing than a British one. Wales and Scotland would likely integrate with the EU smoothly.

Not so England, because England would rather be ruled by nodding donkeys in feudal ermine than 'anti-democratic bureacrats.'

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Jun 30th, 2009 at 06:27:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
Considering that their campaign clearly set out to make Lisbon synonymous with the EU and with 'anti-democratic Brussels bureaucrats' I'm not sure how they were pro-EU, exactly. Except perhaps in a very nominal and completely dishonest way.

Agreed - it was purely a re-branding exercise in Ireland because 70%+ of people think the EU is a very good thing.

ThatBritGuy:

I don't understand British jingo-ism. But all of the Anglo countries, and some of the former Soviet countries, do seem to have some psychological characteristics in common - not least of which is an unwillingness to share or compromise.

Certainly not true for Ireland, and, as you suggest, probably not true for Scotland or Wales either.  I'm not sure that eastern European euroscepticism is in any way comparable.  There may be a lingering nostalgia for a strong authoritarianism which the EU hardly satisfies, allied to a resurgent nationalism and a desire to keep on the right side of the USA to guarantee Sovereignty against Russia.

But English Euroscepticism seems to me to be an almost entirely unique animal - rooted in a post imperial nostalgia that Britannia should be ruling the waves, even if it can't, and failing that to be a special partner of the US in so doing.

Even though it would be hugely against Ireland's national interest, there is a part of me which would like to call England's bluff and let them have their referendum and leave - if only to be rid of their belly-aching.  I could see Scotland, Wales and even N. Ireland voting to remain within the EU and seeking to leave the UK under those circumstances.

Once England realises the USA hardly knows where England is any more, and that Britain without Scotland, Wales and N. Ireland really isn't that Great, I could see England seeking to rejoin and being met by a Gaullist "non".

Maybe it's just the Irish in me wanting to take the English down a peg or two, but I really don't think so.  The English have something to work through - the loss of empire - that they really haven't quite worked through yet, and until they do so they will continue to be a real pain for everyone else.

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Jun 30th, 2009 at 06:59:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series