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He says;


What's all the same interesting in this [European] election, if we look at the Netherlands, Germany, France, is that all those who have been saying the same thing after the crisis as they were saying before the crisis, have failed.

and


The Greens have a hope of doing something, and it's not by chance: their ideological hard disk was already opposed to productivist capitalism and to social democracy, in its radical communist version or its soft version. From the start, it was possible for them to take up a modern discourse.

He's saying two slightly contradictory things here: ie the Greens did not change, but their discourse was suddenly more acceptable in the new circumstances, so they did not get punished.

What I think he means is that the socialists were not critical enough of the old system before, and haven't changed much their tune; while the right, which carried the system before, at least tried to be pragmatic recently, by moving towards more interventionism.

So, what worked politically was either being fully neoliberal, and moving back to statism somewhat (or beign seen to move that way), or being fully critical of that system, but not the softer criticism of the socialists, which was overwhelmed before by the rightwards push, and is overwhelmed today by the similar push of the right towards pseudo socialism.

Or, in other words: if you're too close to the right, you lose.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 10:34:25 AM EST
I take it he's saying that Europe Ecologie, not just the Greens but the whole collective effort, came up with a new discourse re the crisis and situated it at the European level. The Greens having a traditional critique of productivist capitalism and social democracy presumably helped.

But he may be being contradictory too. I must admit I don't quite see why he puts the "radical communist" political line in as a version of social democracy...

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 10:39:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I rather appreciated that insight, specturm of socialisms. The common trait of these ideologies is ideological conformity to achieve state-prescribed agenda. At the "soft" pole, the corporate agenda is indeterminate, or fluid; at the "hard" pole, a totalitarian, or insoluable, comity.

social democracy, in its radical communist version or its soft version.

What I find paradoxical, more so than contradictory, is his reference to modern(ity). It could be read as a kind of atavistic endorsement of imperial appetites for "progress."

From the start, it was possible for them [Greens] to take up a modern discourse.

Or read as the "base case" which a Green political impulse dissembles.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 11:36:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I didn't like his use of "modern" there. But I suppose he's just comparing to the paleo-discourse (or the lack of propositions) of most of the left.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 04:06:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
afew: The Greens having a traditional critique of productivist capitalism and social democracy presumably helped.

i was surprised to learn that the Greens so pointedly oppose social democracy.  curious to understand what their beef with it is, i found this:

Les Verts - Dépasser la social-démocratie

is it safe to suppose that Cohn-Bendit would generally agree with that statement?

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 11:40:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Social Democracy is as married to industrial productivism as the conservatives are.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 12:48:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru: Social Democracy is as married to industrial productivism as the conservatives are.

i did not realize that.  that is certainly a point to remember, if this definition of productivism is accurate (and includes industrial productivism/productivist capitalism):

Productivism is the belief that measurable economic productivity and growth is the purpose of human organization (e.g., work), and that "more production is necessarily good".

Productivism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.
by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 01:09:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Think about it: the labour movement is mostly centered on the blue collar worker.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 04:22:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My impression of the labor movement was that the most important things to it were fairness, worker rights, worker participation in company management, and so on, but not necessarily subscribing to the principle that productivity and growth are the primary purpose of human organization or that "more production is necessarily good".

Truth unfolds in time through a communal process.
by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 04:40:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The labour movement is also interested in ensuring there are jobs, which requires production and demand.

The unions are an integral part of the industrial production economy, working with it not against it.

They want a better set of the pie and that's easier if the pie grows.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 02:01:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I hate to repeat myself, but if you can find a copy of Galbraith's The New Industrial State, read the chapter on unions.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 02:04:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Galbraith's The New Industrial State at GoogleBooks.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 07:18:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Impressionistic history of union organization indeed. Some 250 years, from "mechanics" through "progressives" (skipping the STFU, mining, longshore, etc) and CIO/ILU industrial recruitment, culminating in near universally accepted, ironical boilerplate of seniority and safety attributable to increasing corporate productivity.

ohmmmmm

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 08:16:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've often wondered how exactly the so-called progressive idea that 'workers' need 'jobs' is supposed to be empowering.

I suppose it's better than starving. But isn't it almost completely passive otherwise?

But it's such a reliable and useful trope for the right - support this project/person/boondoggle and get Jobs™ - that I'm surprised it hasn't been challenged more often.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 08:32:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, if you start advocating things like universal living stipends, you're no longer considered a social democrat...

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:18:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
oops

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:20:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, we're commies. What else is new?

Seriously, though, the social democrats have always been about the workers. Other disadvantaged groups have always taken a distinctly secondary position in the socdem programme. The early feminists, for instance, had to fight many of the socdems at least as hard as they had to fight the mommy-stay-at-home conservatives for their emancipation into wider society. They were thought to suppress wages - partly by increasing the number of available warm bodies, partly because there was a fear that they would not unionise properly. (Although to their credit, they came around a lot faster than the conservatives...)

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 03:59:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Even farmers were disadvantaged with respect to industrial workers.

"Socialism" as we know it is a product of the industrial revolution.

The brainless should not be in banking. — Willem Buiter

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Jun 11th, 2009 at 04:01:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Which Cohn-Bendit does, btw. (In his book, Que Faire?).
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Jun 12th, 2009 at 04:46:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
so 'productivity (sustainable) good, 'productivism' bad?

dictionary of definitions dept...

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Jun 10th, 2009 at 03:11:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jean-Luc Mélenchon (Front de Gauche), in the France2 studio on Sunday evening with D C-B seemed ready to talk about abadoning productivism. But yesterday morning on the radio I heard his partner in the Front de Gauche, Marie-George Buffet, leader of the PC, make distinctly unfavourable noises re this notion. Cohn-Bendit says elsewhere in this interview that working things out on the left won't be simple...
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 04:15:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Les Verts - Dépasser la social-démocratie
L'écologie politique a aujourd'hui pour tâche de dépasser la social-démocratie, en réinventant les idéaux qu'elle a perdus et en les adaptant à notre temps. La solidarité qui la fondait doit en effet être désormais étendue à la planète, aux pays du Sud mais aussi aux systèmes vivants auxquels nous sommes reliés et qui sont tous menacés.Political ecology today has the task of going beyond social democracy, by reinventing its lost ideals and by adapting them to our time. Its founding virtue, solidarity, must from now on be extended to the planet, to the countries of the South but also to the living systems to which we are linked and which are all threatened.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Jun 9th, 2009 at 04:12:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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