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Quite.

The right calls it realism. Or realpolitik.

The real word for it is psychosis.

That whole self interest schtick only works if you can model reality accurately. If you're flailing around like an emo kid on a bad day, lying to everyone, getting into fights for the sake of it, and generally acting like a hormonal teen nightmare with a shit eating grin and a sharp suit, this is possibly not the pancakes we're looking for.

Someone who can deal with reality effectively might be a better choice.  

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jul 17th, 2009 at 10:02:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Realism means assuming that actors work to maximize self-interest.  Realpolitik assumes that nation-states are the relevant actors in international relations and that power is the element that each is trying to maximize relative to others.  Obviously, the EU project denies that model -- nation-states AND other collective institutions are the relevant actors and power is but one element of interest among many.  
by santiago on Sat Jul 18th, 2009 at 10:20:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Realism means assuming that actors work to maximize self-interest.

This is as much of a FAIL™ in international relations as it is in economics.

Thanks for playing, anyway.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Jul 18th, 2009 at 11:05:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, that's the problem with psychosis - you think you're maximising self-interest, when in reality you're just acting out a death wish.

I'm sure Hitler thought he was a great patriot, who was totally dedicated to maximising Germany's glory. Unfortunately, being a psychopath, he destroyed his Germany and himself instead.

So can we please stop pretending that 'maximising self interest' actually means anything non-crazy?

The kindest thing you can say about it is that it's inherently pro-cyclical. The mood swings when reality catches up with it don't seem to be fun.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Jul 18th, 2009 at 03:53:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
santiago:
Realism means assuming that actors work to maximize self-interest.  Realpolitik assumes that nation-states are the relevant actors in international relations and that power is the element that each is trying to maximize relative to others.

that's our tone! a poster child for exactly why that approach leads to guaranteed Trouble.

that whole machiavelli adulation really served the neocons well, huh?

power-over instead of power-with, that is the basest of lower common denominators of human behaviour and political skills, and while it may have been the modus operandi of so many leaders through euro-history, there's no reason at all to assume that re-pursuing this bleakly evil vision of human affairs will do aught but mire us in the muck we spent much of the last few millennia roiling around in.

which is why characters like TB should be anathema to the future EU leadership, as emblematic of the nakedly expedient, rank opportunist, selfishly short-sighted wrong way to go about things on any level, be it matters personal or of state.

as for electing a saint, that's effing hilarious in its improbability, they're thin on the political ground, and if they exist at all, they would fess up to what they did, not run to swaddle their consciences under the vatican's seamy petticoats, while claiming to be blessed by faith.

the only thing TB ever believed in was that he was immune to consequences because of the intensity of his will-to-power.

he is the epitome of all that's worst and most hypocritical in the 'perfidious' part of shakespeare's famous quote, in fact he redefines the term.

like obama, he flew to grace on wings of rhetoric, and obama will be just as denigrated if he continues to appease all that's nastiest in anglo-atlanticist politics, ie bankstas and the MIC.

the harder they come, the harder they fall, one and all.

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Jul 18th, 2009 at 08:01:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not in the least.  But I was responding to Fran's very flippant suggestion that being a hypocrite and a murderer both describes Tony Blair and are not desirable attributes for European leaders.  Forgetting TB for a minute, does a search for other leaders, present or historical, find any who have successfully united disparate parties on an international level and not had those same charges placed on them by armchair politicos.
by santiago on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 01:15:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The fact that most people in positions of power turn out to be assholes does not necessarily mean that one should pick somebody one knows to be an asshole for a position of power.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 07:55:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
LOL

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 19th, 2009 at 08:34:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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