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Convener is another, functional, word for president, and it could have been used if the goal was truly to limit the institutional powers of those positions to just convening legislative bodies and setting agendas.

The main difference between the EU project today is that of its democratic claims to legitimacy, as opposed to religious/aristocratic claims -- that sovereignty, in political discourse, is now generally agreed to rest with the governed instead of with the Church. In earlier attempts at pan-European governance, sovereignty was determined at the time to be a kind of relationship with God, for which the Church was the agreed-upon institution that could determine God's opinion on the matter.  

However, it was Machiavelli who challenged that model directly.  (He did not advocate "power over" or absolutism in any sense.)  What he proposed is that just being named a prince because of the institutional decisions by the Church or other authority did not guarantee one's capacity to rule or remain in office -- that sovereignty is always a contested space which must be defended vigorously in every moment.  That is why he is considered the founder of political science -- after his work, power was could no longer be considered to be a gift from God or fate, so sovereignty must rest, ultimately, in something more foundational than a mere institutional arrangement, which gave rise to the enlightenment idea that sovereignty ultimately rests with the governed and not the other way around.

by santiago on Tue Jul 21st, 2009 at 03:54:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Convener is another, functional, word for president

Which one? The EU has Presidents of all three of its main institutions: President of the European Parliament (elected by parliamentary majority; currently Jerzy Buzek), the President of the European Commission (formally proposed by the Council and approved by Parliament; currently, José Manuel Barroso, who stands for a second term), and the President of the Council of the European Union (post rotating every six months, currently Sweden, resp. the corresponding minister or PM of the government of Sweden, whicheer form the Council convenes in). Once Lisbon is in effect, we would get the European Council officialised as fourth institution, adding a fourth, a permanent President of the European Council.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Jul 21st, 2009 at 05:55:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All of them. That's both the beauty and the risk of the EU project. All have authority to convene EU-wide policymaking institutions of varying degrees of authority over different policy domains. The question is what other authorities and powers can the achieve?

The provision of a permanent President of the European Council provides for a centralized political authority that, to me, may be disconcertingly powerful relative to other bodies. But if centralization of power is what one wants in order to strengthen the EU as a unified polity, than the person that holds that office should be judged on both his general ideological outlook (and for all his faults, Blair is a liberal, not a neo-con, after all) and personal leadership qualities as well as her or his capacity to effectively negotiate outcomes among institutional elites that are pretty well insulated from the effects of public opinion. I'd like to see criticisms of Blair that address those qualities and not merely the fact that he favored invading Iraq or appears to play the high-stakes game of bureaucratic poker too well, attracting the meaningless label of "hypocrite."

by santiago on Tue Jul 21st, 2009 at 06:21:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All of them.

Well, not all of them. Only the President of the EP. However, he can do so only under exceptional circumstances; but normally, convening is automatic. (See rules -- the Conference of Presidents mentioned therein is a body also including the faction leaders.) The job of the President of the EP (and his/her deputies) is mostly, just like for the Speaker in British and US parliaments, to conduct the sessions.

The provision of a permanent President of the European Council provides for a centralized political authority that, to me, may be disconcertingly powerful relative to other bodies.

Well, that's what Bliar would no doubt like it to become. But, at present, it is set out to be a rather weak institution: merely a chairman. He can't order around the heads of elected governments, nor does he control the money. It is a rough parallel to your Senate President, not to your THE President.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Tue Jul 21st, 2009 at 06:38:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now you're getting to a reasonable argument against Blair, finally.

Do you favor a strong President model or a weak one? If you think Blair will be both strong and effective, and you really want a weak presidency, then I find that a compelling reason to oppose him.  However, I think the winds on this are actually blowing the other way in Brussels. What was the problem with the rotating presidency after all, if you just wanted something like the US presidency of the Senate?  I suspect that there is a dominant constituency of institutional elites who want a strong, powerful presidency and believe that it will help lead to a stronger and more powerful central European authority in Brussels, and that is precisely why someone like Blair, who has been successful in the face of significant adversity (and for good reason), is being considered as a candidate. Rather than call him a liar and a warmonger, which are terms that likely have little negative connotations for institutional elites, it might be better to simply oppose the strong presidency and those candidates that are likely to want to make it stronger.

by santiago on Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 at 01:14:12 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you think Blair will be both strong and effective, and you really want a weak presidency, then I find that a compelling reason to oppose him.

Blair wouldn't try to be strong and effective. He'd try to be strong, he'd be a disaster, and he'd totally discredit the institution. But just his mere appointment would be a PR mistake for the EU as a whole.

Just look at what he's done as Quartet Envoy to the Middle East.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 at 02:01:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
Blair wouldn't try to be strong and effective


The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 at 03:35:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed: while the President of the European Council was created in no small part to be living PR for the European Council, Bliar would not only fail to achieve this goal, but he would be a PR mistake for the EU as a whole.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 at 05:14:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I can buy that argument.
by santiago on Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 at 03:28:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now you're getting to a reasonable argument against Blair, finally.

Finally? I think in one for or another, all of my arguments were told by me and others in this thread.

Do you favor a strong President model or a weak one?

For that specific post or the EU as a whole?

  • If the former, of course a weak one; I'd like to see the Council develop into some kind of a second chamber, in which the President is only a facilitator. Tony would want to turn this into something stronger (he would want it to become "strong and effective"). I am rather sceptical about his chances to succeed against the will of the national heads of states and governments, and probably the EP would put up some resistance, too; but even if he failed, he is unfit for the facilitator role.

  • If the latter, I prefer the parliamentary model vs. the Presidential one; e.g. an executive getting its power from an elected parliament, rather than from the election of its leader. Why? (1) the Presidential model unifies the representative/identification role and executive power, thus reducing the role of political considerations in the choice too much; (2) a President in the Presidential model is elected first-past-the-post, while a parliament can represent a wider range of political views, and the government too if no opinion has absolute majority; (3) a President in the Presidential model is concentration of too much power in a single hand for my taste.

    IOW, I want a strong Parliament and Commission; which consequently means a strong President of the European Commission (and also strong Commissioners).

(Note terminology issue: in English-language countries, the Latin-origin term "President" in politics is rarely used for posts other than a combined head of the executive and the state. In many of not most other EU, however, corresponding to its original literal meaning -- c. 'chairman' --, it is used in combination for all kinds of posts -- f.e. "Minister President" in place of the British Prime Minister for head of executive, "Republican President" for a ceremonial figurehead head of state, etc..)

in Brussels

The Lisbon Treaty as is represents a compromise between the various players (e.g. the EU's main institutions). Behind that, winds blew in different directions in different quarters of Brussels.

What was the problem with the rotating presidency after all

Too messy. The holders of the office have to govern at home at the time, every six months there is a handover, and when there is a government crisis at home, the EU takes a second seat (see Czech Presidency earlier this year). I note that the rotating Presidency would stay on in the Council of the European Union (the day-to-day intergovernmental institution of the EU). I should also note that in discussions on ET, it transspired to us that the Lisbon treaty definitely solidifies the European Council as an institution of its own separate from the Council, which was seen negatively by most.

dominant constituency of institutional elites who want a strong, powerful presidency

Who would they be? Surely not the Commission and the bureaucracy under it; the Commission wants power for itself (even if Barroso is quite inefficient in seeking it). Surely not Parliament, which was against it and wants more influence for itself. As for the European Council, its members want power to themselves, but that quite obviously doesn't translate into wanting a strong power over their heads. Quite the opposite: they want someone representative to stand in the spotlight, who puts them in a better light -- more a figurehead than power position. (In Eurobarometer polls, the Council was persistently the leat popular EU institution with citizens; with the Parliament scoring highest.) For that reason, Tony would again be a bad choice; and I suspect that's why today the only voices for Tony for President come from Britain.

successful in the face of significant adversity

I am not aware of any real successes achieved by Tony.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 at 05:11:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Lisbon Treaty as is represents a compromise between the various players (e.g. the EU's main institutions).

In fact, I should point out, also within the institutions. In the Council, back then, it was just Tony who advocated a strong President, but with enough opposition for the end result to be severely de-fanged, fortunately. It was reported back then that Tony, who everyone knew wanted the post for himself, no longer wanted such a job -- however, recently he is said to have changed his mind, bored of his Middle East envoy job.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 at 05:20:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As for the rest.
  • We don't wish centralisation of power in the Council, much less the European Council. More in the Commission, once it gets more into the influence of Parliament.
  • Tony was not supposed to be a liberal or neocon, but a social democrat. But with the policies enacted at home during the Iraq War, he can't be counted as a liberal, either. Sorry but neocon comes closest.
  • Tony has no personal leadership qualities. He knows about concentrating power, but not about using power to do something effective. This was true at home, true in all his failed attempts to push policy at EU level, and on the world stage -- see Iraq War.
  • Tony has no capacity to effectively negotiate, either, especially among powerful people -- again see his record of failed EU diplomacy, and his no-show as Middle East negotiator, as was point out before to you.
  • That Tony invaded Iraq is not a 'mere'. It determines his unpopularity, and would be bad for the EU's image -- at home and abroad (the only place where Tony is popular may be the USA).


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Tue Jul 21st, 2009 at 06:48:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think this is a very good and concise list of answers to the diary's question.

I would like to give an appleuse not only to DoDo, but also santiago for the consistant playing of the role as Devil's advocate (intended or unintended) which spurred DoDo to produce such a distinct list.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Thu Jul 23rd, 2009 at 03:02:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
santiago:
attracting the meaningless label of "hypocrite."

boy, you won't quit, will you?

it's quite insidious, how you sneak in your 'values' within your comment.

just because Fran put a smiley after her comment, doesn't mean she was speaking in a flippant manner.

imo, it's you who are flippant, calling hypocrisy a 'meaningless label'.

because if that's how you really think, that's sad.

cue your reply that's not how you really think.

if you are so cynical as to believe conscience is a delusion, and politicians should lie like rugs, then why don't you just say so? it's certainly appears to be what you're inferring, between the lines...

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Jul 21st, 2009 at 07:22:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
melo, get a life.  Calling a politician a "hypocrite" is like calling a calling a pop star "vain."  It is too easy to apply to anyone to be useful even for an insult.  Who isn't a hypocrite, after all?  

I do NOT think politicians should lie, just like I don't think spouses should cheat, but I do think that you will find it difficult to come up with the names of very many statesmen or stateswomen at the international level who have been very successful and who haven't committed their share of dissimulation.  Can you?  (I can think of a few possible candidates off hand -- Dag Hammarskjöld and the Catholic Popes since John XXIII -- but their exception appears to prove the rule by their extra-ordinariness, doesn't it? And their success seems somewhat limited compared to other good statesmen who haven't been so pure.) Maybe some sins are more forgivable than others, so perhaps we can expand our criteria beyond obvious and useless cliches.

by santiago on Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 at 12:47:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There is hypocrite and hypocrite. Tony is a 24/24 hypocrite, so the qualifier is not meaningless.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Jul 22nd, 2009 at 05:22:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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