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That what that leter-writer wrote is, simply said, idiocy.

  1. You don't balance intermittency by running balancing power plants at full power.

  2. Coal power plants are NOT used for balance: just like nuclear, they aren't well suited for variable power output. It's gas, oil, hydro (and pumped storage) that can be used for this.

  3. That intermittency would be a problem for baseload provision comes from an antiquated and over-simplifying notion of power provision, helped by having only two categories ("base load" and "peak load") in the English language.

    It would be closer to reality to divide power provision in three (as is done in German): "base load" consisting of plants running at full capacity, a "medium load" providing scheduled variable power; and finally a "peak load" compensating unplanned positive and negativew spikes in generation and demand on short order.

    Now, what is the second of these for? In the pre-windpower system, it is usually said to compensate the well-known periodic daily change in demand. However, it does another thing too: when a big baseload plant is stopped for maintenance, or stops because of an accident, the medium load plants also compensate for this foreseeable variability in baseload production.

    Now, what if we introduce intermittent wind power into the system? Well, wind power output, especially if there are lots of wind farms in the system, can be predicted. Thus, in fact, in Denmark or North Germany, the bulk of the variability of wind power production can be fed into the schedule of the "medium load" plants! While only the deviations from that need to be compensated by the peak load plants. Thus, in effect, wind power is base load.

  4. What's more, if you think about the above, neither coal nor nuclear is able to replace medium and peak load plants that use other fossil fuels. (This is true even for nuclear France, where some of the balancing is 'done' by exporting the surplus to Italy, Spain and the Netherlands.) That whole argument (whether used for nuclear, or, less frequently, CCS) is bollocks.


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Aug 21st, 2009 at 01:12:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]


*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Fri Aug 21st, 2009 at 01:24:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Wind has the problem that it increases the need for loadbalancing if you use it to meet "Grundlast" demand, since it can, and will, go to zero across the board on a regular basis - Up to a certain percentage of total power supply, you can simply use it to let you run your gas turbines (for mittlelast) less, which isnt entirely nuts, economically, but it doesnt really let you stop burning gas, either.
If you want a 100% co2 free grid, wind wont do it, because there is no way to build enough pumped storage for a week of dead wind, which will happen far to often. - nukes will, but you are still going to need either pumped storage enough to turn that graph  entirely flat, or a use for umpteen thousand kilowatt hours of surplus nighttime electricity you wind up with if you just build enough plant to meet peak demand.  - I think everyone recharging their cars while they sleep would just about do it, but that really needs to be checked with math..

Other solutions: Solar actually follows the middlelast curve fairly well, if you stick the plants in the sahara.

by Thomas on Fri Aug 21st, 2009 at 03:06:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Up to a certain percentage of total power supply

So far this threshold has been a mirage - it's kept going up every time it's been seriously approached. At least in those countries that have a competently (read: State-) run power grid. There is no serious reason to expect that wind cannot replace coal for baseload entirely.

there is no way to build enough pumped storage for a week of dead wind, which will happen far to often

Wind going to zero for a week? Yeah, right. On Mars, maybe...

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Aug 22nd, 2009 at 05:56:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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