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"The President of the United States is a civilian. You don't salute him. Ever. Even if you are in the military."

The President is the commander in chief. That means he's not a civilian. Just like the Swedish prime minister is a civilan as he's not the commander in chief of the Swedish armed forces. The guy who's CINC around here is the Supreme Commander, our only 4-star. That is, beside the King, who is both a 4-star general and a 4-star admiral and who, hence, is not a civilian.

Soldiers salute the King and the Supreme Commander, not the prime minister.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Sat Jul 4th, 2009 at 05:22:29 PM EST
That may be true for Sweden, but the framers of the American constitution made a deliberate political point of making sure that the president was CIC without giving up his status as civilian.

It may be a contradiction and it may not fly under international law either (for instance, the POTUS might arguably be a military target during war), but as a matter of protocol its symbolic significance should not be neglected.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jul 5th, 2009 at 02:47:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See wikipedia:
During the War of 1812, President Madison was under enemy fire on August 24, 1814, when American forces were routed by British troops in Bladensburg, Maryland. ...

During the American Civil War, President Abraham Lincoln ... actually came under enemy fire in 1864 during the Confederate attack on Fort Stevens in the District of Columbia, but did not exercise battlefield authority as commander-in-chief at any time.

Modern-day American Presidents and Presidential hopefuls just have their picture taken inside military vehicles, like Michael Dukakis or Bush the Lesser.


A man of words and not of deeds is like a garden full of weeds; a man of deeds and not of words is like a garden full of turds — Anonymous
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jul 5th, 2009 at 04:50:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Not exactly true.  Lincoln made great efforts to become a competent military strategist after the war began, and while he may not have actually led troops on a particular battlefield, there is no doubt that he exercised his authority as CIC. Example.

From page 136 of The Story of the Confederacy by Robert Selph Henry regarding General George B. McClellan's army in 1862.

There can be no better example of what the relations between a military commander and his civilian chief should not be, than those of McClellan and Lincoln.  There was fault on both sides: McClellan was secretive with his chief, and condescending; he was without any conception of the importance of the political side of war; he lost sight of the necessity for keeping the government behind his plans.  Lincoln and Stanton, his Secretary of War, interfered often and unduly with the plans of the young General to whom they had intrusted chief command, and frequently without so much as notifying him of what they were to do.

Wearying of inaction, Lincoln during the winter issued his President's General War Order No. 1, directing that all the armies of the Union advance on all fronts on February twenty-second, presumably as a patriotic gesture on Washington's birthday. Later, in March, was issued another order from the President, peremptorily ordering an advance by McClellan's army before the eighteenth of the month, distinctly threatening in tone. On March eighth, without discussion with McClellan, the President divided his army into corps and assigned commanders to them. On March twelfth, while McClellan was with his army, he saw in the newspapers the order relieving him from command of all the armies, and confining him to the Potomac Department - his first intimation of the change.



I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Mon Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:01:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nitpick point two.  The President of the US is saluted by members of the American armed forces and he may return a salute.

I can swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell. _ Blood Sweat & Tears
by Gringo (stargazing camel at aoldotcom) on Mon Jul 6th, 2009 at 10:12:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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