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From Calculated Risk

This graph...compares the BLS reported monthly unemployment rate (in red) with the Obama economic forecast from January 10th: The Job Impact of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Plan

Geithner is correct about the stimulus kicking in during the 2nd half of 2009, and Delong agrees. But Delong is pointing out that the economy is in much worse shape than originally expected, and he argues if the Obama Administration knew in January what we know today, the package would have been much larger. Maybe. But thinking back - there was a huge political problem with the word "trillion" - so a much larger package would have been very difficult (although the composition could have been different).


As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Jul 13th, 2009 at 09:26:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
So a second stimulus of the same size as the first is needed?

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 04:06:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But even that might fail unless the banking mess is cleaned up.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 10:56:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I keep saying "if you want lending to happen, lend directly, don't bail out the banks".

A case in point from last week:

El fondo bancario podrá disponer de 90.000 millones · ELPAÍS.com[Spain's] banking fund may have €90bn at its disposal. - ElPaís.com
El Fondo de Reestructuración Ordenada Bancaria (FROB), convalidado ayer en el Congreso, contará con una aportación inicial de 9.000 millones de euros, ampliable a 90.000. Es el segundo plan de rescate para la banca aprobado en los últimos meses.The Ordered Banking Restructuring Fund (FROB), validated yesterday in the Congress, will have an initial contribution of €9bn, extendable to €90bn. It is the second rescue plan for the banking sector approved in the last few months.

Now compare this to yesterday's

Spain is aiming to change its economic model away from construction and towards the "sustainable economy".

Salgado pide a los bancos y cajas 10.000 millones para el fondo de economía sostenible · ELPAÍS.comSalgado asks banks and S&Ls for €10bn for the sustainable economy fund - ElPaís.com
La vicepresidenta segunda del Gobierno y ministra de Economía, Elena Salgado, ha clausurado el IX Encuentro Financiero Internacional organizado por Caja Madrid y EL PAÍS, acto en el que ha pedido hoy a los bancos y cajas que aporten el 50% del futuro fondo para la economía sostenible que se pondrá en marcha en 2010 y que ascenderá a 20.000 millones de euros. Cuando llegue la recuperación, ha afirmado Salgado, el sector financiero español deberá "redirigir la asignación de recursos hacia sectores sostenibles, es imprescindible su participación en el fondo".[Spain's] Second Deputy Prime Minister and minister for the Economy, Elena Salgado, has closed the 9th International Financial Meeting organised by [S&L] Caja Madrid and El País, an event in which she asked banks and S&Ls to contribute 50% of the future Sustainable Economy Fund which will kick off in 2010 and will reach €20bn. When the recovery arrives, Salgado claimed, the Spanish financial sector will have to "redirect the resource allocation towards sustainable sectors, its participation it the fund is a requirement".
Now I'm pissed off...
That's some return on investment: give the banks €90bn now so they will lend €10bn next year for your "green economy fund". The government is basically saying 1) we can't afford to give €20bn for the green economy fund by ourselves, half of that will have to come from the banking sector; 2) to ensure there is a banking sector next year, we'll authorise 9 times as much to be given to an FDIC on steroids now. It makes no sense.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 11:23:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I made a similar point in an old diary: The Phoenix Solution, in which I proposed using a fraction of the money in the proposed stimulus for the creation of new banks, that would not be contaminated by toxic assets.  Obama could do that.  It would require turning on the big banks, but if he did and accompanied it with prosecutions for everything that is prosecutable he could save the economy and the possibility of democratic government and at the same time improve his re-election chances.  But this will be the last thing he would do by his own choice.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 14th, 2009 at 02:02:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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