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Why does hedging risk not fit with the accepted fairytales about the market?

I mean, I can see why it would bother the City of London that the supplier and consumer hedge risk bilaterally rather than through a middleman. But surely it shouldn't matter to any sensible model of risk management?

Do economists seriously postulate that there is a difference between buying a future from GazProm and buying a future from GoldmanSachs?

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Aug 10th, 2009 at 11:36:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
JakeS:
Do economists seriously postulate that there is a difference between buying a future from GazProm and buying a future from GoldmanSachs?
The OTC (Over-the-counter, off-exchange) market is good if your counterparty is Wall Street, and it is bad if they are brown or speak funny. [PN: you trade futures in an exchange, but enter into forwards bilaterally off any exchange]

JakeS:

I mean, I can see why it would bother the City of London that the supplier and consumer hedge risk bilaterally rather than through a middleman. But surely it shouldn't matter to any sensible model of risk management?
From the point of view of risk management you could have a bilateral agreement (both parties carry the counterparty risk), or an agreement through a middleman (the middleman takes the counterparty risk, assuming the middleman is less likely to default that either counterparty), or a transaction though an exchange/clearing house (the clearing house takes the counterparty risk, and the risk is mitigated though margin accounts).

JakeS:

Do economists seriously postulate...
I don't know about "economists", but "The Economist" clearly seems to.

But not really if pressed, I wouldn't think. The point of The Economist's piece is not rational argument about hedging but narrative-pushing about the UK's position in the energy markets.

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 10th, 2009 at 11:59:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
JakeS:
Why does hedging risk not fit with the accepted fairytales about the market?
The acceptable fairytales say that hedging is done by trading derivatives (preferably cash-settled!) in an exchange. Entering into a long-term contract is an old-fashioned, borderline socialistic, monopolistic practise. Get with the times, Jake!

The peak-to-trough part of the business cycle is an outlier. Carnot would have died laughing.
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Aug 10th, 2009 at 12:04:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am reminded of your reaction to my concept of buying shares for the dividends.

"So 19th century!"

;-)

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Aug 10th, 2009 at 12:32:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Entering into a long-term contract is an old-fashioned, borderline socialistic, monopolistic practise.

Quoted for truth! ;D

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Mon Aug 10th, 2009 at 05:11:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Do economists seriously postulate that there is a difference between buying a future from GazProm and buying a future from GoldmanSachs?

Selling futures is a seriously profitable activity. So yes, there is a BIG difference: in one case, the profits go to Gazprom, and in the other to Goldman Sachs. surely you can see how how outcome is much preferable to the other one (if you are Goldman Sachs or one of their sycophants)...

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Mon Aug 10th, 2009 at 01:01:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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