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From Mbendi, emphasis mine:

Coal is Spain's most plentiful indigenous energy source. Production has fallen in recent years, and the decline is expected to continue as Spain works to meet environmental standards. Spain is the European Union's largest coal producer. Spain's coal reserves are abundant but difficult to mine. Consequently, the cost of production is higher, making Spanish coal less competitive than that of many other countries. As a result, coal production could eventually be phased out. All of the major coal companies are state-owned. The leading producer of soft coal is Huelleras del Norte S.A. (Hunosa), and the leading producer of lignite is Empresa Nacional de Electricidad S.A. (Endesa).

According to the 2008 BP Statistical Energy Survey, Spain had end 2007 coal reserves of 530 million tonnes. Spain produced 18.2 million tonnes of coal in 2007 and consumed 20.1 million tonnes oil equivalent. Thermal coal is imported, primarily for power generation and the steel industry.

Terrific. Another government proving how mining shouldn't be run. It's really easy: if costs > income = shut the mine.

by Nomad on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 06:08:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nomad:
It's really easy: if costs > income = shut the mine.
It's not that easy:
Postponing the inevitable closing of the coal mines is only part of the solution. An alternative needs to be provided to the maybe 100,000 people that would have to relocate were the mines to be closed overnight. What can we done with €600 million per year to ease the transition to the unavoidable future when the mines will be no longer in operation, and the mining comarcas deserted?
(see my parallel comment)

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 06:10:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
600 million for 100.000 people per year = 500 euros per month per person. Is Spain's unemployment stipend more than 500 euros per month?

Have any plans been decided, or are there any plans in the work that you're aware of, that have already started transition and phase out of coal production or will this continue until total and dramatic collapse becomes inevitable?

by Nomad on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 06:28:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nomad:
Is Spain's unemployment stipend more than 500 euros per month?
Zapatero has introduced a €420/mo stipend for people whose unemployment entitlement has run out. Minimum wage is €624/mo.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 06:30:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You will note that 100,000 people is an estimate of the wider impact (miners' families and the economy supporting them). The actual number of miners was about 14,000 in 2004, and the average subsidy came to about €43,000 per miner (going to the industry, not to the miners directly in the form of salaries). And this was half of the cost of production.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 06:34:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Based on the above numbers, let's close, hypothetically, half the mines. 7000 miners are sent home, and receive unemployment benefits henceforth. The governments also cuts 50% of the subsidies, meaning 300 million.

300 million spread over 7000 people would give an unemployment benefit a little shy of 3600 euro per month.

I'd wager to guess that's unusual for an unemployment benefit.

Let's make it twice the minimum wage = 1250 per month. Then, costs for the state would be €105 million. Left: €195 million to spent on transition and other affairs.

Last year, the platinum companies in South Africa cut some 30.000+ people. The gold industry cut another 20.000+. Which is truly horrendous, because there is hardly any social safety net in SA. But the point is: firing up to 10.000 people is nothing unusual in mining industry. For Spain, there doesn't need to be any drama, as far as I can see. And shutting down the mines would be for the benefit of everyone, including the environment.

Am I missing something?

by Nomad on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 07:39:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nomad:
Let's make it twice the minimum wage = 1250 per month.
Reportedly the mean wage in Spain in 2007 was about €20k, but the median wage was €14,500, below €1250 per month. It would probably be politically difficult to justify such a subsidy. However, I don't know how that compares to a miner's typical salary.
Am I missing something?
Not that I can see, except that possibly
€195 million to [be] spent on transition and other affairs.
probably wouldn't eliminate the need for people to move away from the areas in question since there isn't enough of a local economy to replace coal export income.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 09:23:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
is not enough to realise attractive subsidies for relocation? There aren't any unsold houses in Spain any more?

By not undertaking action, I will rate Zapatero's government as incompetent as the previous 25+ years of post-Franco government that kept on stimulating unprofitable mining.

by Nomad on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 09:39:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You will notice that this coal mining issue blew up in ZP's face in the first month of his first term in office, back in 2004. 5 years later, here we are.

Just like his finance minister Solbes saying in January 2006 that the real-estate development economic model was unsustainable and the boom years needed to be used to lay the groundwork for a change in model. 3 years later he left the government and the change of economic model is beginning to be talked about.

The same level of incompetence as Blair's government which came to power in 1997 and was caught by surprise when Scotland's North-sea gas production peaked. You would have thought 5-year projections should be the bread and butter of government. And you would be wrong.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 09:49:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
came to power in 1997 and was caught by surprise when Scotland's North-sea gas production peaked
in 2002, that is.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 09:59:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, you can develop the local economy around new economic sectors. Bilbao was quite successful in regenerating the city's economy after the closure of the blast furnaces (Altos Hornos de Viscaya).

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 09:45:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There are four things you can do in inland Asturias: cows, coal, tourism and wind farms.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 09:55:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So remove coal and combine the three others:
cow winds farms
cow tourism
tourists winds farms
...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 10:06:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The inland wind turbine test site in Grevenbroich is built on a ridge of tailings from one of Germany's largest open mines.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin
by Crazy Horse on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 10:24:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Life really can make one giggle.

Never underestimate their intelligence, always underestimate their knowledge.

Frank Delaney ~ Ireland

by siegestate (siegestate or beyondwarispeace.com) on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 02:48:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nomad:
will this continue until total and dramatic collapse
To judge by the experience of the last 5 years, yes.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 09:06:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Coal is Spain's most plentiful indigenous energy source.

Solar not being indigenous as it comes from the sun, and wind because it from somewhere abroad? Seriously, is there a way to define "indigenous" that is not automatically biased against renewable energy?

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 06:16:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What a crock of humanure!

Nomad quotes Mbendi:

...

Production has fallen in recent years, and the decline is expected to continue as Spain works to meet environmental standards.

No, peak coal doesn't exist. It's all the fault of those pesky environmental standards.
Spain is the European Union's largest coal producer.
Because it doggedly refuses to downsize its mining sector
Spain's coal reserves are abundant but difficult to mine.
They are also or very poor quality: mostly lignite as all the anthracite is gone and there is mostly bituminous coal (the hulla in Hulleras del Norte (HUNOSA)) and lignite.
Consequently, the cost of production is higher, making Spanish coal less competitive than that of many other countries.
Yes, it's like insisting on producing heavy, sour crude when other countries are still producing enough of the light, sweet variety to keep the price low.
As a result, coal production could eventually be phased out.
And that would be a good thing were it not for the social impact on the local economies around the pits.
All of the major coal companies are state-owned.
Having been bailed out in the 1960's when they became unprofitable
The leading producer of soft coal is HuellerasHulleras del Norte S.A. (Hunosa), and the leading producer of lignite is Empresa Nacional de Electricidad S.A. (Endesa).
See? No Anthracite (or "clean coal" - that is, low in impurities. Given global climate change, burning anthracite would be criminal even if it didn't contribute to acid rain or smog).

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 06:29:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Spain is the European Union's largest coal producer.

Nope, by far. In 2006, Spain produced 20 million tons of coal, whereas Poland produced 171 million tons...

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet

by Melanchthon on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 08:23:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Are they referring to the EU15, maybe?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 09:02:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and wouldn't care what Mbendi means.

Mbendi is useful as a cursory introduction to mining. At best.

by Nomad on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 09:09:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can't be. Germany produced 220 million tons in 2006, and Greece 72 million tons. By the way, I was surprised to find that the UK still produces around 19 million tons a year.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 09:31:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
...and Germany 220.55 million...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 09:27:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. I din't think they were still producing so mush coal.

"Dieu se rit des hommes qui se plaignent des conséquences alors qu'ils en chérissent les causes" Jacques-Bénigne Bossuet
by Melanchthon on Wed Sep 23rd, 2009 at 09:47:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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