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Does the development of EU citizenship rights not imply/require the development of some means to identify EU citizens.

It doesn't because EU citizenship is defined as being a citizen of one of the member states.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jan 17th, 2010 at 07:56:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But the UK is not part of Schengen, so how does a passport less UK citizen even get outside the UK and satisfy e.g. the French authorities that he is entitled to the the health benefits due to a UK aka a EU citizen?

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Jan 18th, 2010 at 07:40:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Aren't we talking about requirements for signatures on a petition? Presumably such a UK citizen can sign the petition without leaving the U.K.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Mon Jan 18th, 2010 at 07:47:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The UK, almost uniquely, does not require citizens to have an official identification card/passport, whereas EU countries generally do.  What I am looking for is a simple, consistent, pan-european method of certifying identity and preventing identity theft which can assure the rights of all EU citizens, wherever they may reside in the EU, to vindicate their rights as EU citizens - be that signing a petition or accessing public healthcase etc.

A passport seems the most universal method of doing this, but then we have to overcome the issue of Brits sans passports and the usual anglo exceptionalism....

notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Mon Jan 18th, 2010 at 08:19:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
According to Wikipedia, Denmark does not have an identity card either, but I presume that Danes are much more likely to have passports.

That article also lists a number of other EU countries where identity cards are not compulsory, but since anyone can get one it would be reasonable to require one for authentication.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Mon Jan 18th, 2010 at 09:01:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In countries where the ID card is not compulsory, that may be so because a drivers' license or other similar documents are accepted alternatives, not necessarily because no identification is required at all.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jan 18th, 2010 at 10:23:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What if you don't drive? A driver's licence is not required.

In the US there is no federal ID requirement. In fact, States issue drivers' licences through their Department of Motor Vehicles. Now, in California if you don't drive you're actually required to obtain a State ID card from the California DMV. So you can assume that any Californian has either a driver's licence or a State ID card.

I don't think the same is true in the UK, though. Because of the inability to assume people had any ID, Banks had really fun (not) procedures for their customers to establishing identity and address...

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 18th, 2010 at 10:28:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No requirement for ID here either, though it would make life interesting.

British banks have traditionally hated their customers. They do the weird procedures for fun.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Jan 18th, 2010 at 10:33:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Traditionally? I remember opening an account in Scotland when visiting my birthplace with my father, and it was completely straightforward.They certainly hate their customers these days (when my father had to close his account and open another, he couldn't, and he had to open one in Jersey instead), but I think it's a relatively recent tradition.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Mon Jan 18th, 2010 at 11:58:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sorry, should have said "English".
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Jan 18th, 2010 at 12:02:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What if you don't drive?

Then the social security card, or passport, or tax card. If you have neither, the ID card remains the only choice of identification.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.

by DoDo on Mon Jan 18th, 2010 at 01:31:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Except that the social security cards or tax cards I have seen (in various countries) explicitly state they are not valid forms of ID.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 18th, 2010 at 03:07:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's different from country to country...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Jan 18th, 2010 at 03:18:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We're talking about tying eligibility to sign the petition with eligibility to vote in EP elections. In the UK people renew their (mandatory) voter registration with their local authority annually and receive a voter card by mail some time before each election, which they can then use to prove eligibility to vote at the voting booth. Outside a period of a few weeks prior to an election UK citizens may not have at hand a government-validated instrument to prove eligibility to vote.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 18th, 2010 at 08:47:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It might be added that registration for EP elections is highly problematic for expat EU citizens in a number of countries (and not only for UK-ians). Harmonisation is strongly required.

Within the context of this proposal there are a few topics on which harmonisation is vital, IMO:

  • Allowed methods of collection
  • Verification
  • Deposits
  • Service fees

Simultaneous verification with a notary present and only in designated facilities is not something we'd want to see here. There need to be somewhat harmonised methods of ex-post verification (and these should also be valid for the nomination of candidates/parties for the EP elections). It is also not desirable that countries ask for high deposits or service fees for the verification of signatures. Maximum amounts need to be fixed in the Regulation.
by nanne (zwaerdenmaecker@gmail.com) on Mon Jan 18th, 2010 at 09:02:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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