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Despite the herculean efforts to prop up house prices (the lynch pin of Geithner's policy), the debt overhang persists and house prices have resumed their inexorable descent.

He bought time, sure, but the time is up. Politically it's been up for a while, they just didn't care to notice until they lost an extremely safe Senate seat in a special election and finally people on the left other than Bernie Sanders started asking for Bernanke's head.

Economically, I'd rather doubt they have any time left, either, but we'll see, unfortunately my crystal ball only works for hockey (and no, the Habs will not make the playoffs this year, though spanking the Rangers like last night still is a pleasurable experience).

End of day, the Krugman/Black position has been to emphasize the solvency crisis aspect of the financial meltdown. The Geithner/Summers/Bernanke position has been to hope that the meltdown is more due to a liquidity crisis.  The jury is still out, but my own view is that the latter position is as weak an equity position as all of those millions of homeowners whose mortgages are, in increasing numbers rounded to the million, underwater. Of course for this central issue, there is no credible plan...

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Sun Jan 24th, 2010 at 06:51:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but there are mortgage relief and restructuring programs.  It can be argued they don't go far enough, but they're there and they're helping.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Jan 24th, 2010 at 06:22:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
is argued that not only the Hamp did not go far enough, but that it is a big failure.

I don't think there is a credible independent person in the US who would argue that the HAMP is anything but a big failure, all the serious finance and econ blogs (Krugman, Calculated Risk, Delong, et c.) agree on this but if you've got a cite to the contrary I'd love to see it.

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Mon Jan 25th, 2010 at 02:50:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm not arguing the opposite, I'm just saying it's not a failure to the people whose asses are currently being saved by it.  And there are those people -- they're not nothing, they count.  So it's not a big failure to them.  I'm hoping the program gets expanded, but it's difficult to argue for expansion of a 'big failure.'  That's where I'm coming from in this discussion.  I don't have a credible independent mucky muck economist cite, sorry.  Just piping up for the little people happy not to lose their homes.

Maybe we can eventually make language a complete impediment to understanding. -Hobbes
by Izzy (izzy at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 25th, 2010 at 03:18:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm hoping the program gets expanded, but it's difficult to argue for expansion of a 'big failure.'  That's where I'm coming from in this discussion.

Krugman has been warning since before Obama was elected that his stimulus plan was too small and that its likely failure would be interpreted as a failure of the concept of stimulus, not a failure to make it the right size... And here we are, a year after inauguration.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 25th, 2010 at 05:08:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The real problem is a solvency problem and always has been. Geithner and Bernanke will do anything to avoid talking about solvency or "discovering" actual market values for trillions of dollars worth of assets. We had the bogus stress tests because G&T knew a genuine audit would have politically unacceptable implications. All effort has been directed to favoring and protecting the big banks. It is not clear, and I doubt, that the US economy can be made to show sustained growth with the enormous rent that Wall Street is extracting, and it is almost all unproductive financial investments.

Could we get control of Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Wells Fargo, Citi and Bank of America in return for annual pensions of $1billion/year each for perpetuity and thereby be in the position to wind them down at minimum damage and spin off their useful functions into bite sized entities that would be such a deal as we cannot imagine. But they would want $50 or $100 billion each per year and that is not sustainable.

But their ongoing risk taking activities could end up costing even more than that for a few years. That is the scale of the problem. The above are top of the head estimates based on my sense from the reading I have been doing over the last years but I believe they are in the ball park.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Jan 24th, 2010 at 09:54:44 PM EST
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