Display:
So what exactly has he done for civil rights? And why haven't I heard about it?

Wait this is important. Someone is wrong on the Internet.
by generic on Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 at 02:58:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by rootless2 on Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 at 03:06:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks

Wait this is important. Someone is wrong on the Internet.
by generic on Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 at 03:21:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Lots of great things are happening.

  • The DoJ is doing its job again. (Though I must say the composition of the list itself is unimpressive - a 3:1 ratio of press releases to actual action is... not reassuring, shall we say.)

  • In other news, the IRS may consider starting to collect taxes from the richest 1 % again. That's also excellent news.

  • The fact that the plans to bomb Iran have been put on a back burner for now is also great.

  • We can be reasonably certain that we won't see endangered species being taken off the endangered species list out of pure spite anymore.

  • Presumably, hardwood logging licenses in the federal national parks will not be renewed when they expire.

  • There's actually federal money going into building railways.

But - and this is the salient point - you don't get brownie points for doing your job. Obama doesn't have to convince me that he's better than Dubya or Palin. Genghis Khan would be preferable to Dubya and Palin. Obama has to convince me that he's a net positive. Which is not the same thing.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 at 04:52:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think this is the nub of the argument. To me, faced with a moderate Obama, the task is to attack the reactionary power structures. To others the task is to bitch at Obama.
by rootless2 on Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 at 08:48:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And the question is, essentially, is Obama one of those reactionary power structures?

I'm not seeing any game plan for how supporting Obama and the rest of the blue dogs will do any good. I can see a game plan where primarying the lot of them will do some good.

Now, primarying people carries a certain inherent risk, as does all forms of factionalism. So if you can point me to an actual game plan that doesn't involve factionalism, I'd be happy. I like low-risk operations as much as the next guy.

But "wait and hope" is not a plan, just as "I'm not Bush" is not a programme.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 at 09:37:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama is a blue dog? Amazing.

I'm for primary challenges for blue dogs. How one gets to that by calling Obama a fuckup is the part that eludes me.

by rootless2 on Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 at 09:49:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama is a blue dog?

Geithner, Clinton, Summers.

Prosecution rests.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 at 09:55:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Summers is no blue dog, he's not even a New Dem. Neither group talks about wealth disparity as a problem. Geithner/Warren's proposed financial consumer protection agency has zero blue dog support. Romer? Jarrett? Solis? This is the administration that hired Van Jones - of course he got no support from "progressives" when the wingers attacked him.

This is not blue dog
http://detnews.com/article/20100108/BIZ/1080414/White-House-announces-green-job-tax-credits

You sound like the idiots like me who said Humphrey was the same as Nixon.  Some of us learned better though.

by rootless2 on Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 at 10:03:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Back in the '90s, Summers fucked over Russia so hard that the rest of Europe is still dealing with the fallout. Probably will be for another generation.

So I hope you'll excuse me if I take his heel face turn with a rather heavy dose of salt.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 at 10:21:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And in the 1960s Lieberman marched with MLK and David Horowitz was a Maoist. I'm not asking you to love Summers, I'm asking you to sharpen your analysis. If you want to use "Blue Dog" as a synonym for "public figure i don't like" then your discussion of public events will be murky.

Even Marx distinguished between the interests of finance capital and production capital. All these people are not the same.

by rootless2 on Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 at 10:54:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think Hillary Clinton is a tool. She's not a bad Sec of State actually, in the real workings of State. And given the shitpile in PK/AF she inherited, no one could square that diplomatic pentagon in a year.

Summers is not a dummy or a tool either. Just was very wrong on some very big things, like most of those in his trade. Not sure he's so much of an indictment of Obama as of his trade.

Geithner is a tool and, apparently, an idiot, on the other hand. The best and the brightest economists and finance professionals of his generation did not go into public service. He did. Case closed.

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Sun Jan 24th, 2010 at 06:25:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Am I the only one here who remembers Hillary being all gung-ho about expanding the wrr on trr to a couple of new countries in the Near East during the campaign? In what fantasy world would that have been a good idea? And why doesn't supporting (even if just for show and just to appease the sovok republicans) such a spectacularly bad idea disqualify you for a position of responsibility?

As for Summers... if this had been an academic discussion where he had to eat crow (not that he ever did eat any crow, mind, in the official version of history it was all Yeltsin's fault), that would be one thing. But it wasn't. For that matter, if he had yanked the emergency brake on his little experiment when things started going apeshit, it would have been a different matter. But he stayed the course, until he'd accomplished in the space of less than a decade for Russia what it took his friends on the other side of the Pond three full decades to do.

And it's simply not the case that these people are the best Obama could have picked. Just off the top of my head, Bair and Stiglitz have a distinguished history of public service - if not precisely one of stellar accomplishment, then at least one of not fucking things up with such dreary regularity.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jan 24th, 2010 at 06:49:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That goes for her  unfortunate remarks in PK as Sec State too.

No debate from me on Summers, he is detestable for the reasons you have mentioned. Obama went for the safe, Democratic establishment hands, with him. One gets the sense economics is not Obama's strong suit and he probably relied on Emanuel (the other stiff who isn't mentioned here) to help him through those ill-considered appointments.

But Geithner is in another league. A full-on Wall Street catamite.

Personally I step away from this a bit perhaps, because I am not a democrat, so I think more in terms of the democrats looking out for their party interests, not mine. In that sense, Clinton's appointment still makes sense. Summers no longer does. Geithner and Emanuel never did. The latter three are, today, huge political liabilities to the president.

All four are moral liabilities to me, of course, but then, the party they represent isn't mine...

 

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Sun Jan 24th, 2010 at 06:57:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Call me a chicken, but "posturing" from a country that with depressing regularity throws semi-random third world countries up against the wall and beats the shit out of them is not something calculated to make me sleep better.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jan 24th, 2010 at 07:04:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And the long march of history...as it happens, i doubt they have but a couple more Iraks in them before they are bankrupt.

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
by redstar on Sun Jan 24th, 2010 at 07:57:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's not a question of whether Obama is ideologically or practically better than the Congressional Blue Dogs, but the fact that the President is a much tougher target due to the electoral process that produces one.

Congresspeople are infinitely more vulnerable, and state legislators even more vulnerable than congresspeople.  City councilpeople are still more vulnerable, as are a whole plethora of other non-legislative local and state positions like school board members.

Attacking the low-hanging fruit, while still bitching about the president, will have a heck of a lot more influence than will simply bitching at the president.  Obama might not be the most progressive person around, but it would sure help if congress was pushing him to be more progressive, rather than less.

by Zwackus on Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 at 11:41:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
 What's with the Federalist Society link?

No comments though, assume that's what the Ha Ha is for...

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant

by redstar on Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 at 05:00:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
yes, I was laughing at their complaint.
by rootless2 on Sat Jan 23rd, 2010 at 08:49:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series