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  1. House passes H.R. 3962 EH, "Affordable Health Care for America Act"
  2. Senate passes H.R. 3590 EAS, H.R. 3590 EH (S. 1720), as amended by "Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act"

  3. current congressional action

  4. Clerk delivers conference bill to each of the chambers for vote as "merged" (emended).

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Do you mean vote to adopt or vote on whether to adopt?

I mean vote to adopt the conference bill. If either chamber fails to pass the conference bill, the legislation fails enactment.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Jan 25th, 2010 at 04:40:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But if the House passes the Senate bill with no changes does the diagram change?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Mon Jan 25th, 2010 at 04:55:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But if the House passes the Senate bill with no changes does the diagram change?

No. This is the procedure to reconcile any (subject) related bills introduced in either of the chambers.

This is why I query to what new "Senate bill" Mig believes Pelosi refers. I checked the senate calendar. There were only two actions (votes) all of last week neither of which concern healthcare insurance reform.

Mig: "Because I believe there would be a filibuster in the Senate if the Senate were asked to vote again, even on the bill they already passed."

The Senate has not passed a germane conference bill; neither has the House. The votes AFAIK are not yet scheduled. Each chamber votes independently to pass the same conference bill.

Mig: "(Because as of last Tuesday, they is a different they)."

I do not understand this statement.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Jan 25th, 2010 at 05:21:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm fairly sure your chart only applies if the bills are not identical.  The purpose of a conference report is, after all, to make the bills identical.

Unless there's a rule everybody else is missing, the House can pass the Senate bill, and send it to Obama's desk.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Mon Jan 25th, 2010 at 06:40:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That was my understanding.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 25th, 2010 at 06:56:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sometimes the chambers effect "reconciliation" prior to conference committee per se, so permiting the House majority leader(s) to evoke a Rules Committee motion adopting a "senate version" as delivered to the House for passage prior to pro forma conference committee deliberation.

emphasis added

Yes, conference is to make the bills identical. Greater than "90%" advertised. You know, all summer the House developed H.R. 3200. This fall Baucus released his outline to Finance Committee, Dingell introduce a conforming H.R. 3962 with first cuts into "public option" provisions. House made further emendments to H.R. 3962 during and after the weeks finance committee hearings were broadcast by CSPAN. By the time Reid began the marathon amendment process, MSM was currying factional acrimony over Hyde Amendment funding prohibition, rather than, say, price discrimination allowed in the Baucus bill but prohibited in the House bill.

Remember "the trigger"?

The Rules Committee could deliver the Baucus bill to the floor for a vote, but Pelosi hasn't  support for a legislative dive. Like I said the differences are few but not trivial and bear on restricting Medicaid eligibility, premium subsidy eligibility, tax benefits, and states' establishment of "public option" plans much less committing matching fed funding to expand existing community-rated plans.

Yes, 133% PL more generous than, say, 50% PL Medicaid eligibility in MD for adults. But the Baucus bill minima reams H.R. 3296 financial support for HH incomes greater than that. A whole hell of alot of uninsured people treading the other bottom deciles. Who fights for them? Party leaderships sez no one.

2009-2010 HHS Poverty Guidelines

And when this thing passes "as is", don't expect improvements, corrections, repeals, or finesse anytime soon thereafter.

Obama will ask to freeze a part of govt spending for 3 years beginning in 2011


Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Jan 25th, 2010 at 11:18:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
when this thing passes "as is", don't expect improvements, corrections, repeals, or finesse anytime soon thereafter

And if it doesn't pass "as is" expect it not to pass at all, followed by noimprovements, corrections, repeals, or finesse anytime soon thereafter.

So, what would you rather have 15 years from now? The current system, or the Senate Bill?

Oh, by the way, on the no improvements hereafter point... Politico has Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi work to save health care reform

Struggling to salvage health reform, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi have begun considering a list of changes to the Senate bill in hopes of making it acceptable to liberal House members, according to sources familiar with the situation.

The changes could be included in separate legislation that, if passed, would pave the way for House approval of the Senate bill -- a move that would preserve President Barack Obama's vision of a sweeping health reform plan.

But the move comes with political risk, because it would open Democrats up to charges that they pressed ahead with roughly the same health care bill that voters appeared to reject in the Massachusetts Senate race Tuesday. Republican Scott Brown won on a pledge to try to block Obama-style health reform.

I guess the game here is to pass the Senate Bill in the House and then continue to work on separate legislation. And the point one should not forget is that once an entitlement is given it is exceedingly hard to take away.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 26th, 2010 at 03:58:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And the point one should not forget is that once an entitlement is given it is exceedingly hard to take away.

The worrying point is that some parts of the bill only kick in after several years. It might be easier to take away an entitlement that has only been promised, but not actually given.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Jan 26th, 2010 at 04:32:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Why does the US congress always do this sunset provision, gradual kick-in, and other assorted nonsense?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 26th, 2010 at 05:24:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Two words: Enron accounting.

Sunset clauses mean that the accountants can pretend that some measure will be a temporary rather than recurring expense. (To be fair to Enron, this is not actually Enron accounting - it's WorldCom accounting.)

Gradual kick-ins mean that costs will only come into effect some way through the accountants' ten-year forecasts. Which, of course, permits a politician to say "it will cost only N million per year over the next ten years," when the true story is that "it will cost 0 million per year for the next three years, N million per year for the four years following that, and 2N million per year after that until the heat death of the universe."

Krugman had a nice deconstruction of these mechanics when he critiqued the Bush tax cuts back in 2001, but damned if I can find it.

- Jake

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jan 26th, 2010 at 07:35:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Mig: "(Because as of last Tuesday, they is a different they)."

I do not understand this statement.

A certain Senate composition passed the Senate Bill at the end of last month. Last Tuesday a guy who ran on a platform to defeat health care including the Senate Bill if it came back for a revote, presumably, and who called himself "41" in reference to the 60 votes needed to stop a filibuster, won a Senate special election.

So, the Senate who would have to pass the conference bill is a different they from the they that passed the Senate Bill even though both theys are the Senate.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 25th, 2010 at 06:59:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What's the difference? -- see Results.org for example.

"Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" (H.R.3590) "Senate bill" or "Baucus bill" is not the more desirable implementation of the two versions. It is the most parsimonious version under consideration. Not mentioned here is the chambers' different treatments of states' insurance regulation and establishment of state "public option" plans and/or insurance exchanges; as well as insurers' premium constraints and "individual responsibility tax credit" eligibility.

Normally, a conference committee is convened to hammer out a compromise bill. However, it appears that congressional leaders will forego the formal conference procedure to avoid procedural votes that might give opponents of reform an opportunity to further stall reform. Instead, House and Senate leaders will negotiate informally and when a deal is reached, the House will pass the Senate bill with amendments to reflect the compromise, with the Senate following suit

The purported strategic value of the manoever is nonsensical. On one hand, abrogate committee emendments to "avoid procedural votes;" on the other, allow House floor[?] "amendments to reflect the compromise" --normally produced by formal conference-- to assure House passage, then Senate passage, of the not-conference bill.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Jan 25th, 2010 at 07:03:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act" (H.R.3590) "Senate bill" or "Baucus bill" is not the more desirable implementation of the two versions.

Except that it is the only one that may yet pass:

  • The House bill will not be passed by the Senate with its new teabagger from Massachusetts.
  • A conference bill will not be passed by the Senate with its new teabagger from Massachusetts.
  • The Senate bill might yet be passed by the House as is.

Or we could have a conference bill and the democrats might try to defeat a filibuster.
Or the House could kill the Senate bill and there would be no health reform of any description.


En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Jan 25th, 2010 at 07:07:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Did you ever ask, Why would the "teabagger from Massachusetts" in particular oppose the Baucus bill? But not the House bill.

Did you ever ask, What carve-out a la Nelson might the "teabagger from Massachusetts" negotiate? Since all of Congress awaits his arrival.

Also, "Or we could have a conference bill [i.e. committee emendment of two nearly identical bills] and the democrats might try to defeat a filibuster.
Or the House could kill the Senate bill and there would be no health reform of any description.
" is a vintage of ultimatum the Bush congress employed to terrorize representatives and constituents.

It's so nice to hear democrats repeating right-wing talking points. It goes to show constituents' discipline when none is needed to enforce a Democratic Party majority in both chambers that's willing to abandon any "public option" to avoid a filibuster threat during a FY budget season.

Oh wait.

That would be confrontational, no?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Mon Jan 25th, 2010 at 09:01:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Related news:

Sen. Ben Nelson (D-Neb.) said Monday that he would oppose any health care reform bill with a national insurance exchange, which he described as a dealbreaker....

Before the Massachusetts election, the White House and Democratic leaders were attempting to negotiate a compromise that could win 60 votes in the Senate. And Nelson could have deprived House Democrats from securing what they have increasingly viewed as a must-have -- a national exchange rather than a series of state exchanges.

But for now, Democrats are trying to write a companion bill to the full Senate legislation that would need only 51 votes in the Senate.*

Read more...

Baucus innovation from the alternate universe of not-single-payer financed medical insurance.

---
* ohhh-kaaay, "kill the House Bill" passed as a companion bill to the Senate Bill and block a conference bill of same.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Tue Jan 26th, 2010 at 12:10:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Did you ever ask, Why would the "teabagger from Massachusetts" in particular oppose the Baucus bill? But not the House bill.

He'd oppose both.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 26th, 2010 at 03:59:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you think the Democrats can defeat a filibuster, I say go for it.

However, in the 3 years since they gained a majority of the House and the year since they gained a majority of the Senate they haven't given me the impression that they're willing to force the Republicans to filibuster. So I'm working with that data point as well.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 26th, 2010 at 04:01:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Time to tell Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins either vote for HCR or lose Bath Shipworks. They should be able to sell that deal to Maine. But wait---that would be doing politics with a knife in the belly. Knife in the back is more standard operating procedure.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jan 26th, 2010 at 11:24:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What do you mean, "What's the difference?"  The difference is one bill requires 60 votes when the Democrats have 59 and the other doesn't require the Senate to vote again.  That's a pretty enormous difference.

It would, indeed, be a nonsensical strategy if you were reading something that was up-to-speed with the makeup of the Senate.  But that seems to have been written prior to Brown's election.  Before Brown, it wasn't nonsensical.

The strategy now is for the House to pass the Senate bill, sending it to Obama, and to amend it via reconciliation.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Jan 26th, 2010 at 07:53:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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