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Not really: it applies to both of us. We don't know much of the extent of the "burden" carried by these women who have to live with such an imposition.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Tue Jan 26th, 2010 at 05:04:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If you claim that the headscarf is prima facie evidence of abuse you have to prove  guilt, not demand that innocence be proved.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jan 26th, 2010 at 05:56:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A headscarf isn't the same deal as a burqa, not by a long shot.

A burqa is a serious impediment to communication, because it removes most of the body language and facial expression from the conversation. Not to mention the fact that one cannot visually identify the wearer.

A headscarf is a different story by far - it obscures mostly the hair, which carries a far more limited "sideband" for interaction when people communicate. And it poses no issues w.r.t. identifying the wearer.

Now, in most situations there is no law saying that one must be prepared to communicate with one's fellow citizens. And I find a requirement to be visually identifiable in public to be an odious infringement on privacy (particularly in a day and age where surveillance cameras are ever more intrusive and omnipresent). But there are cases - schools, courts, customs, etc. - where either or both identification and communication are of respectable importance, so there is a distinction to be made here on practical as well as aesthetic grounds.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Jan 26th, 2010 at 08:38:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't "demand" any "proof of innocence". I've said that "I'd like to hear the point of view of the girls and women who are first and foremost affected by the situation." And you and I seem to agree.

Speaking of women's PoV: am I the only one having noticed that this diary and the whole comment thread so far is 100% male? What does it say about us?

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.

by Bernard on Wed Jan 27th, 2010 at 09:11:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ET has scared all the girls away from such conversations?

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Jan 27th, 2010 at 10:14:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Since you're here, what is your opinion on the matter at hand?

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jan 27th, 2010 at 10:26:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Heh.  You want my opinion, or a reasoned argument?  My "opinion" is that the proposed ban is chauvinistic xenophobic sexist bs .  But how to make a reasoned argument against, "vous n'êtes pas français... vous ne pouvez pas le comprendre...", I do not know.  I actually am French.  Fortunately the country to which my French ancestors immigrated has allowed us to keep wearing berets as a symbol of our militant coolness. ;)  

On a serious note, this pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/28/opinion/28iht-edgopalan.html

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.

by poemless on Wed Jan 27th, 2010 at 11:56:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm still scared, FWIW.

"Pretending that you already know the answer when you don't is not actually very helpful." ~Migeru.
by poemless on Wed Jan 27th, 2010 at 11:57:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

This is not about a fashion faux pas or women's rights, but about sending a message to Muslims. Concerned with increasingly visible numbers of Muslims openly practicing their way of life while enjoying the privileges of life in the West, French citizens and politicians alike feel that they need to restore "Frenchness" to their streets.

This is stupid and ignorant. "increasingly visible numbers of Muslims"?? WTF is he talking about?

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Thu Jan 28th, 2010 at 02:25:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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