Display:
Thinking of putting a wind turbine on our property in the 100,000 kwh range.  Running the financials, near as I understand them at the moment, it is very favorable.  Offsetting our electric consumption gives us a (non-taxable!) nine cents per kilowatt hour.

We are living in an area where the wind can gust up to 75 mph and sustained winds of 55 mph.  Dust blowing into the gearing is a certainty so the covering needs to be both tight and easily removed for maintainence.  

Since were in town, I've concluded we need a minimum of 100 foot to get the turbine into 'clean' airflow.

Questions:

  1.  Is there a wind turbine in the 100,000kwh that is built to last 20 years in our conditions?

  2.  I've been estimating the wholesale price of electricity at 50% of retail.  Is that reasonable?

  3.  I'm reading the cost of erecting a wind turbine runs $1,000 to $1,350 per kwh.  Is that accurate?
by ATinNM on Sun Jan 3rd, 2010 at 12:55:56 PM EST
Good thinking, but it seems you're confusing a few things.  100,000 kwh is a measure of annual output, but wind turbines are sized and sold based upon nominal generator size, i.e 1kw - 10kw for residential.

Gusts and sustained don't matter, it is absolutely essential to get an accurate prediction of mean annual wind speed.  There is nothing better than setting up your own anemometer on the site, but one can begin to extrapolate from airport, government and university data.  For certain there's a group which has already studied NM winds, and likely state gov reports publically available.  AWEA site has the NREL map of wind speeds.

You have to check whether NM has net metering, and what the permitting situation is.  100 ft elevation is likely too low "in town" as you need to get above turbulence.

AWEA has a site dedicated to answering questions about small wind.  Two residential companies i can recommend are Bergey Windpower and Southwest Windpower.  There you'll be able to see what you need for 100,000 kwh per year.  Off the top of my head, that sounds impossible for a residential turbine.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Sun Jan 3rd, 2010 at 01:30:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
   
resources

Wind Energy FAQ

How Can I Calculate the Amount of Power Available at a Given Wind Speed?

Contributed By Eric Eggleston, 5 February 1998

Because air has mass and it moves to form wind, it has kinetic energy. You may remember from science class that:

kinetic energy (joules) = 0.5 x m x V2

where:
m = mass (kg) (1 kg = 2.2 pounds)
V = velocity (meters/second) (meter = 3.281 feet = 39.37 inches)

Usually, we're more interested in power (which changes moment to moment) than energy. Since energy = power x time and density is a more convenient way to express the mass of flowing air, the kinetic energy equation can be converted into a flow equation:

Power in the area swept by the wind turbine rotor:

P = 0.5 x rho x A x V3

where:
P = power in watts (746 watts = 1 hp) (1,000 watts = 1 kilowatt)
rho = air density (about 1.225 kg/m3 at sea level, less higher up)
A = rotor swept area, exposed to the wind (m2)
V = wind speed in meters/sec (20 mph = 9 m/s) (mph/2.24 = m/s)

This yields the power in a free flowing stream of wind. Of course, it is impossible to extract all the power from the wind because some flow must be maintained through the rotor (otherwise a brick wall would be a 100% efficient wind power extractor). So, we need to include some additional terms to get a practical equation for a wind turbine.

Wind Turbine Power:

P = 0.5 x rho x A x Cp x V3 x Ng x Nb

where:
P = power in watts (746 watts = 1 hp) (1,000 watts = 1 kilowatt)
rho = air density (about 1.225 kg/m3 at sea level, less higher up)
A = rotor swept area, exposed to the wind (m2)
Cp = Coefficient of performance (.59 {Betz limit} is the maximum thoretically possible, .35 for a good design)
V = wind speed in meters/sec (20 mph = 9 m/s)
Ng = generator efficiency (50% for car alternator, 80% or possibly more for a permanent magnet generator or grid-connected induction generator)
Nb = gearbox/bearings efficiency (depends, could be as high as 95% if good)

If there is any single equation that the beginning wind enthusiast should memorize, this is it.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Sun Jan 3rd, 2010 at 01:31:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thank you for your reply.

While putting up a residential sized wind turbine is do-able I would prefer to do this as a money-making business.  100,000 kwh - and I know that means annual production - is what is required to make the "math" work, ROI, income stream, & all that.  

BTW, I need to be concerned about peak wind speed as I'd just as soon not have the tower crashing down on one of the structures 'round here, the turbine ripping off the top of the tower and flying away, etc., etc.  

Being a Designated Cynic isn't merely my job, it's my passion.

:-)

H'mm.  Let me try and recast my question.

My requirements, at the money I can afford to throw at the situation, are larger than the normal "residential" market and way too small for the serious players.  Before I put a lot of personal time - of which I have little free - I need to find out if there is a reputable manufacturer with a reliable product in my (admittedly minuscule)  market niche.  

by ATinNM on Sun Jan 3rd, 2010 at 08:30:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
1.  Until you have some idea of your wind resource, you have no idea of how much swept area (watts/m2) you need to produce 100,000 kwh/yr.  Once again, you can bet that UNM and the local dealers have a handle on the wind resource, which is your first step.  Click here for larger

As you can see, NM basically has strong ridgelines, and little else.  This is why certain areas already have windparks, as in the Guadalupe Mtns.  Hardly anywhere has over 500 w/m2.  (Compare to Scotland with much over 700w/m2)


This map indicates that New Mexico has wind resources consistent with utility-scale production. The largest contiguous area of good-to-excellent resource is in central New Mexico between Albuquerque and Clovis. Other notable areas of good-to-excellent resource are located near the Guadalupe Mountains in southern New Mexico, near Tucumcari, and in the northeastern part of the state near the Colorado and Oklahoma borders.

They are not talking about residential here.  It's highly likely that you will need to put the turbine at the loneliest ranch high up halfway to Roswell, and pay the owner something, before you can get anywhere close to 100,000 kwh.yr.

No, you don't need to be concerned about peak wind speed, unless you have strong hurricane winds a few hours a day, in which case you don't live where you live.  Certified turbine tower combinations are designed to survive 150 mph winds, and be able to return to power production after 120.

I already gave you two very reputable manufacturers of different scale, and local dealerships, which you didn't acknowledge.  If you need a larger turbine, the strongest turbine in the world comes from Northern Power Systems, and operates well in polar regions or at microwave repeater stations high in the Canadian Rockies with maintenance necessary only when the repeater station is visited. But they are expensive of course.

Being a Designated Cynic doesn't absolve you from doing your own homework.  And how does "getting the math to work" work if you need to keep investing in larger and larger swept area to get your 100,000 kwh per year?

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Mon Jan 4th, 2010 at 03:19:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There was a company taking down old DoE turbines and refurbishing them and selling them (apparently the space is now valuable enough that it is worth taking down the old units for newer larger models).
by njh on Mon Jan 4th, 2010 at 05:19:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
As i thought, from wiki,

SkyStream is the first device to be spun out of the U.S. Department of Energy's Wind Energy Program. That program includes the National Renewable Energy Laboratory Wind Technology Center in Boulder CO. Andrew Kruse estimates that one SkyStream will produce about 100 MWh of power over its 20-year design life. At a typical total installed cost of $15,000, that gives an average energy cost of 9 cents per kilowatthour.[2]

That means your estimate of 100,000 kwh per year is way overboard.  The earliest 100 kw turbines in the windy Altamont Pass averaged less than 200,000 kwh per year, and residential scale is a tenth to a hundreth that.

Your costs are also way off.  A Bergey 10 kw turbine is $29K, tower $15K, electronics and installation extra.  Small wind remains very expensive, except where there's a truly strong wind resource, and net metering combines with high residential rates on the order 14-16¢ kwh.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Sun Jan 3rd, 2010 at 02:10:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

ELEMENTAL Resources
Attn: Christopher Dow
9445 Coors NW #1017
Albuquerque, NM 87114
   Tel: (505) 301-5123
   E-mail: dowenerchi@mac.com

Padilla Industries
Attn: Pat Padilla
11 Cuerno de Vaca Dr.
Santa Fe, NM 87507
   Tel: (505) 474-5511
   Fax: (505) 474-5523
   E-mail: patpadilla@aol.com

Ace In The Hole
Attn: Ed Blue
P.O. Box 178
Estancia, NM 87016
   Tel: (505) 269-6994
   Fax: (505) 384-5221
   E-mail: aceinthehole@wildblue.net

Lynx Electric Co.
Attn:  Tom Walstrom
501 General Somerwell SE
Albuquerque, NM 87123
   Tel: (505) 271-8773
   Fax: (505) 271-0246
   E-mail: twalstrom@lynxelectric.com
   Web Site: http://www.lynxelectric.com
 

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Sun Jan 3rd, 2010 at 02:11:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
An example of a small wind project at Inn Serendipity.

I'd bet your costs would be higher, and you'd get about 20-30% greater annual production with the new blades.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Sun Jan 3rd, 2010 at 02:50:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Just want to tell you that I watched the last two thirds of "Around the Universe" the other night and I was riveted by it.

I'm planning to watch it again soon with my spouse.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Sun Jan 3rd, 2010 at 03:11:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You can drill out the rivets if you want to be able to move again.

Glad you enjoyed it, perhaps we should make a diary to discuss it, though no discussion is as good as seeing it.  That way we try to recreate your old film threads.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaïs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Sun Jan 3rd, 2010 at 03:28:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll see if I can get a handle on it. The film is of particular interest to those of us who lived the sixties, which may be the reason for its lack of commercial success. There's not enough of us old guys around who are still able to get to a cinema ;)

The problem with doing a film diary is getting enough people to watch the film in advance.

Hey, Grandma Moses started late!

by LEP (rafifoon@yahoo.com) on Sun Jan 3rd, 2010 at 04:48:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It might be worthwhile doing a careful comparison of wind versus photovoltaic solar, combined with passive solar house features. Here in Colorado Springs, a few hundred miles north of you, straightforward passive solar can almost get you through the winter, with just a bit of additional heat on the coldest and nastiest days. Household appliances are the biggest consideration after heat.

To get an idea of ideal wind conditions, take a trip to a nearby wind farm. It's somewhat surprising to feel how strong and steady the "breeze" (more like hurricane) is at ground level at these sites.

Useful site: http://www.emnrd.state.nm.us/ECMD/renewableenergy/wind.htm

It looks like New Mexico does have an aggressive net metering plan
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2007/01/new-mexico-expands-net-metering-to-80-m w-47156
which is really good because then you're basically using the grid as a battery: You put power into it when you have an excess, and take from it when you need it. Hopefully balancing out at the end of the year...

by asdf on Sun Jan 3rd, 2010 at 05:33:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Photovoltaic isn't there yet.  Been through it upside, downside, and all around the block.  Retro-fitting this house to solar heating was the preferred solution and the approach I was going to take until I learned about the NM net metering plan.  
by ATinNM on Sun Jan 3rd, 2010 at 08:34:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Passive solar ain't so great, but active solar can be tremendously effective, even in places like Montana (see my friend's site: http://builditsolar.com) with payback periods measured in months for some designs.  Incidentally, I've got a friend in CS who I think you should meet: how best to contact?
by njh on Mon Jan 4th, 2010 at 05:18:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series