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naked capitalism: 4ClosureFraud Posts Lender Processing Services Mortgage Document Fabrication Price Sheet
So wake up and smell the coffee. The story that banks have been trying to sell has been that document problems like improper affidavits are mere technicalities. We've said from the get go that they were the tip of the iceberg of widespread document forgeries and fraud. This price sheet
The article is about a price sheet for forged foreclosure documents
provides concrete proof that the practices we pointed to not only existed, but are a routine way of doing business in servicer and trustee land. LPS is the major platform used by all the large servicers; it oversees the work of foreclosure mills in every state.

And this means document forgeries and fraud are not just a servicer problem or a borrower problem but a mortgage industry and ultimately a policy problem. These dishonest practices are so widespread that they raise serious questions about the residential mortgage backed securities market, the major trustees (such as JP Morgan, US Bank, Bank of New York) who repeatedly provided affirmations as required by the pooling and servicing agreement that all the tasks necessary for the trust to own the securitization assets had been completed,

What they're hinting at is that the sales of residential mortgage-backed securities over the past few years were based on false legal affirmations by the major banking institutions
and the inattention of the various government bodies (in particular Fannie and Freddie) that are major clients of LPS.

Amar Bhide, in a 1994 Harvard Business Review article, said the US capital markets were the deepest and most liquid in major part because they were recognized around the world as being the fairest and best policed.

Jerome has argued repeatedly that international markets are not going to drop the US$ as a standard because of the legal security ("who would want to have contract law disputes decided under the Russian or Iranian courts?" goes the rhetorical question)
As remarkable as it may seem now, his statement was seem as an obvious truth back then. In a mere decade, we managed to allow a "free markets" ideology on steroids to gut investor and borrower protection. The result is a train wreck in US residential mortgage securities, the biggest asset class in the world. The problems are too widespread for the authorities to pretend they don't exist, and there is no obvious way to put this Humpty Dumpty back together.
[Drew's WHEEEEE™ Technology]

(which is to say, h/t to Drew)

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 11:41:12 AM EST
So, does this mean that the foreclosure carousel stops dead ?

this is surely gonna blow big holes in portfolios cos people at the back end who rely on the banks' claims of liquidity are gonna start needing proof that the banks hold the papers they claim.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 11:47:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't know whether the foreclosure carousel is going to stop, but if it does it's going to take down with it a lot more than just a few portfolios:

Florida's Kangaroo Foreclosure Courts: Judges Denying Due Process on Behalf of Banks « naked capitalism

Let's look at one example of banana republic faux justice in the US, via a speech by foreclosure court Judge Roger Colton to his court on how the day was going to go. It's simply breathtaking. He says that if the bank is foreclosing, he's not going to consider any evidence that the foreclosure is in error (servicing errors, plaintiff can't provide proof it owns the note, which means it might not be the right party and procedurally, means it lacks standing to take action). He says he has already heard everything, there is a lot of unemployment in the area; he is going to schedule a court date, but that is merely a deadline for negotiation. In other words, he makes it abundantly clear he has no interest in hearing evidence. When he gets to seeing a defendant after his speech to the court (p. 13), he rubber stamps what the bank wants without even considering the evidence. And apparently his entire day went like that. The summary from an attorney who was representing a client before him that day:

On 8/30, I had a Summary Judgment Foreclosure hearing on Palm Beach County's "Rocket Docket". The judge spoke for 14 minutes to the crowd, of mostly pro se defendants, about how they should just agree to the summary judgment and the plaintiffs, (whose attorneys (Shapiro & Fishman had a dedicated courtroom and to whom he referred to as "my attorneys") would be gracious (Ha!) enough to allow them to stay in their homes for 120 days if needed (even though the statute says he only has to give them 30). When it came to hearing arguments which were fully briefed and provided to the court (pursuant to the instructions of the Divisions head judge) he only allowed 30-60 seconds for argument, failed to read any of the papers, failed to review the plaintiff's foreclosure package,flatly ignored the Affidavit filed in Opposition, ignored my plea for a trial, signed the judgment and dismissed me. I never was permitted to even read the proposed judgment or to examine the "newly discovered" allonge which Shapiro's counsel said I had no right to see.

Newly discovered allonges (separate documents with endorsements on them) are fakes; this is the new preferred method of document fabrication. Per the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code), an allonge is to be used ONLY when all the space that could be used for endorsement of a note has been used up. That means margins and the reverse side. And when an allonge is employed, it has to be so firmly attached to the original as to constitute a single document. Hence, no way can it travel separately and suddenly be discovered if it were legitimate.

What happens when the average American wakes up to the fact that the US is a banana republic with no legal security whatsoever?

Anyway, the point is not about the foreclosure. The point is that, if people realise this kind of stuff goes on in the US, the US might lose its position at the centre of the global financial system by virtue of losing its reputation as being the best policed financial system.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 11:53:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What are they going to do? Hire a lawyer?

The smart move would be to hire a private detective and check if Judge Colton has had any interesting lunch partners recently.

Then try to find a big fat law firm willing to organise a class action suit.

But that's kind of hard to do when you're homeless.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 11:56:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now, suppose you're a black former community organizer and editor of the Harvard Law Review. You read about this stuff. Does it not make your blood boil? What do you do?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:01:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Collect your bribe and keep speechifying about a better tomorrow, at a guess.

Let's see if I'm wrong.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:05:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obama is too cool to get worked up. and I bet he doesn't even know it happens and would expect bipartizan action from the Hill anyway.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:07:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
He doesn't take phone calls from Alan Grayson?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:08:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're kidding, right?  Alan Grayson is treated like a court jester here.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:21:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Uh, he's a Democratic Congressman after all...

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:35:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Send him over here, we could use a court jester like him.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 01:04:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hell no.  For the sake of my own sanity, you can't have him.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 06:42:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Tort lawyers in the US work on a contingency basis.

So if the aggregate damages are great enough there's still hope...

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman

by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:04:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Except for the Supreme Court, which denies legal personhood to persons but promotes it for corporations.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:10:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
What are they going to do? Hire a lawyer?
naked capitalism: Florida's Kangaroo Foreclosure Courts: Judges Denying Due Process on Behalf of Banks
Florida is ground zero of the foreclosure crisis. In addition to being one of the epicenters of the housing meltdown, it has also become the jurisdiction where local lawyers have been the most effective overall in unearthing how servicers and foreclosure mills have engaged in widespread document fabrications and use of improper affidavits to foreclose.

...

Given the success that local attorneys are having (it has reached the point where the state attorney general's office has opened an investigation into three so-called foreclosure mills operating in the state), pushback by the mortgage industrial complex was inevitable. The old saw about "best government money can buy" now looks to apply to the courts, the one area most people assume to be relatively free from tampering by well funded interests.

The smart move would be to hire a private detective and check if Judge Colton has had any interesting lunch partners recently.
If you think this case is isolated, here are some reports via e-mail courtesy Lisa Epstein, who runs ForclosureHamlet.


By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:14:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In-cred-ible !! Even my cynicism doesn't stretch to expecting that.

Is there no redress against a bad court procedure ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:04:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Go appeal.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:06:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think there's room for some small scale "tastes like actual libertarianism" movements in the US, especially (as I have stated before) as the middle class gets further gutted and people that actually have their act together suddenly have a lot of time on their hands. There is probably a fair bit of that going on right now, but the media loves the teabagger sideshow craziness for obvious reasons. As it stands the teabagger types are too emotionally retarded and angry to be utilizing narratives that aren't exclusively harmful to themselves.

you are the media you consume.

by MillMan (millguy at gmail) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 01:29:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fraud would seem to be the default MO of unregulated markets.

When there's no accountability and no punishment for fraud, then fraud will happen.

But I think Jerome's argument still holds because these actions defraud the little people, not bond holders and 'investors' - who stand to benefit from them, not lose by them.

We should wake up and deal with the reality - many parts of the markets are knowingly run in an explicitly fradulent and criminal way, for the benefit of an overclass which doesn't much care how returns are generated.

This is a moral and social problem, not just a financial one.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 11:49:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It goes all the way to judicial fraud. First, they produce false affidavits of lost court summons

Foreclosure Fraud - Fighting Foreclosure Fraud by Sharing the Knowledge: Super Sewer Service - I Feel Bad For ALL the People Who Lost Their Homes and Were (obviously) NOT Served

In the past[when?] in many countries[which?], people did not have the right to know that there were legal proceedings against them. In some cases, they would only find out when magistrates showed up with the sheriff and seized their property, sometimes throwing them into debtor's prison until their debts were paid. The Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments to the United States Constitution prohibit the federal and state governments from depriving any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law. Therefore the process server is "serving" the recipient with notice of their constitutional right to due process of the law.

...

Yea, they only have to counterfeit them if challenged...

There is absolutely no way that this many summonses were "accidentally" lost.



By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 11:58:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Mortgage Gate Just Got Weirder: Counterfeit Court Summons | Phil's Stock World
Today, courtesy of Alan Grayson's office we discover that not only are servicers foreclosing on mortgages to which nobody apparently owns the title, but that servicers, representing such reputable firms as Deutsche Bank National Trust Company, are willing to counterfeit court summons in their pursuit of a clean and efficient foreclosure mill. As Grayson's office points out: "Apparently what's happening is that private process servicer companies may not be serving people with summons, and are simply counterfeiting the documents so they can keep the fees without doing the work.  That means that you could theoretically be foreclosed on without ever knowing there was even a foreclosure case against you." What it also means, is that banks may have been participants in this outright criminal judicial fraud, which we are confident will be uncovered in many more cases, as this is highly unlikely to be an isolated case.
Does this mean "foreclosure mills" are defrauding the banks that hire them so they can get the fees for foreclosures they never carried out?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 11:59:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And just for everybody information: That huge list of lost summonses?  That's one county in 2010, and it's not even one of the larger ones in Florida.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:02:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A substantial part of the 62 million mortgages and titles held by MERS could be impaired. With an average value of $200,000/property, that could be around $12.4 trillion in impaired assets, (if I can properly multiply), but some of those are 2nd mortgages. But even if half are 2nds...

As one of Yves' headlines said "The Shit Is Hitting The Fan!" Why am I not surprised that so little is being written about this in the print media and so little said via the broadcast media?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 04:11:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
If it's truly endemic, as Yves thinks (and Yves is pretty sharp), then this is Lights Out, Game Over, Buh-Bye.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 05:13:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, the kangaroo courts will be protected by the silence of the lambs compliant corporate media. Like guantanamo, it will be incorporated and normalised and nobody will be allowed to be reminded that America was once a different place.

As Wilson might have written "It has always and forever been as it is now" Watch out for streamers.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 05:30:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's nice and all, but one problem: A silent press doesn't matter much when the cops are frog-marching you and the lawyers are unleashing unfathomable sums' worth of lawsuits on you.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 05:36:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
and each individual thinks that it's just them. By the time the low info voter majority finds out it'll be way too late. And they'll vote for Koch Industries Tea Party candidates who are mad as hell and as accommodating as necessary.

Your problem is that your politics don't work, the guys in DC are all guys who think that there can't be anything wrong with a system that puts them in charge,  and meanwhile the courts are corrupt. Where's your redress ? What you gonna do ?

Revolution ?? Hee, don't think so. All your well-armed guys are in favour of this corrupted chaos.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 05:50:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
All your well-armed guys are in favour of this corrupted chaos.

Not all and the National Guard is an open question, but too many, and especially much of the upper ranks of the various state and local police fit your description. Police find authoritarian structures familiar and comfortable. I don't accept that we are hopelessly doomed, but I am very concerned.


As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 06:07:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't accept that we are hopelessly doomed,...

Com'on Geez, no need to be negative. Evolution ... serious change ... can be a good thing.

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 06:49:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But I am beginning to think that most of the electorate are special creations. Very special.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 08:46:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm a bit foggy on my history. When the USSR fragmented was there Revolution or did it just dissolve like a sugar cube in hot coffee?

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 06:08:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In brief: a faction fight broke-out in the Ruling Class and the USSR collapsed in the muddle.

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot
by ATinNM on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 06:41:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A bloody collapse or a bloodless one? I seem to remember the Baltic states telling Russia to Fuck Off first and when there was no military response, the Ukraine et al followed suit.

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 06:47:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Relatively bloodless, some people died in Moscow during the resistance to the coup.  Don't remember how many.  There wasn't the mega-death that resulted from the Tsarist government collapse.  

Here's a pocket history.

Skepticism is the first step on the road to truth. -- Denis Diderot

by ATinNM on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 06:52:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Very Good! Thank You! Pretty much as I remember the events, without the background information. And now I'm living in the center of the American Empire ... and what? Interesting!

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 07:02:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Though if it hadn't been for the Soviet holdovers that kept Gazprom running while the rest of the country went to shit, the death toll would have included an unknown number of Siberians who would've frozen to death.

Soviet apparatchiks may have been mean SOBs, but at least they proved to be competent when and where it mattered. Can the same be said for the American apparatchiks?

- Jake

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 04:42:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Had to look that word up. There are so few competent anyone in the US so the answer is a resounding NO!

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 06:39:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A friend of mine was studying Russian in Moscow at that point, and that weekend they'd decided to take a couple of days  off in the Baltic states without proper paperwork and permission, and while they were away The state they were in declared independence. apparently much fun was had returning to their place of study.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 07:03:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... apparently much fun was had returning to their place of study.

Care to elaborate?

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 07:15:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Too many years since I was told, so no.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 07:39:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't understand the response.  It's disconnected from my comment.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 06:25:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I suspect that Helen believes that it will be those who object to what they perceive as unconstitutional acts who will be frog-marched, whereas, if I read you correctly, you think it will be the perpetrators of the fraud. I think it could go either way.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 08:52:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ah, I see the problem. I'd widened my response from the individual response to system level.

My view is that this corruption of "due process" will be incorporated and normalised so that it becomes the status quo. Meanwhile, the possibility of an organised response at legal or political level will be effectively neutered by a media that reflexively anticipates corporate preferences.

So, tens of thousands of people may well lose their homes in a fraudulent fashion and, while they may have suspicions there was something wrong with what happened, there will be nobody sufficiently well informed to join the dots and nobody sufficiently well positioned to do anything about it.

Hence my comment that Wilson Winston Smith could demonstrate that this is the "America as it has always been and always will be"

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 06:30:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the ironic result will be the decay of all financial and property rights.

If I buy a foreclosed home for cash and it turns out the foreclosure was fraudulent, there's a good chance that I don't actually own my home.

If I refuse to pay a credit card debt and the debt has been collateralised so that it's not clear who owns it - it's going to be very difficult to enforce it.

What's been happening in Florida is a kind of pre-emptive noisy move to try to lay claim to property - any property - before the confusion sets in.

It's been working for a while, but now that questions are being asked, the process is about to fall over.

And since there's so much paper with so many claims on it in the system, and some of it will have been lost, it's going to be impossible to settle some claims at all.

It won't be long before someone realises that the same principle applies to investments of all kinds. If I have X shares in a portfolio which has been re-invested in scheme Y, are they really mine?

What do the concepts of property and obligation mean when a big percentage of all transactions becomes so ambiguous that not even the courts can decide who owns or owes what?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 06:44:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What do the concepts of property and obligation mean when a big percentage of all transactions becomes so ambiguous that not even the courts can decide who owns or owes what?

You own what you can defend.

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 07:01:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
See John Stuart Mill on Private Property
Even what a person has produced by his individual toil unaided by any one, he cannot keep, unless by the permission of society. Not only can society take it from him, but individuals could and would take it from him, if society only remained passive; if it did not either interfere en masse, or employ and pay people for the purpose of preventing him from being disturbed in the possession. The distribution of wealth, therefore, depends on the laws and customs of society. The rules by which it is determined, are what the opinions and feelings of the ruling portion of the community make them, and are very different in different ages and countries, and might be still more different, if mankind so chose.
As a society we have forgotten what the best thinkers of 150 years ago knew, to our peril.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 07:05:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
I think the ironic result will be the decay of all financial and property rights.
And with it, the decay of capitalism as we know it
The reason capitalism has triumphed in the West and sputtered in the rest of the world is because most of the assets in Western nations have been integrated into one formal representational system . . . By transforming people with real property interests into accountable individuals, formal property created individuals from masses. People no longer needed to rely on neighborhood relationships or make local arrangements to protect their rights to assets. They were thus freed to explore how to generate surplus value from their own assets."

-Hernando de Soto, The Mystery of Capital

Capitalism started with its opponents proclaiming that "property is theft" and ends with its practitioners acting on "theft is property".

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 07:02:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Its practitioners have always acted on 'theft is property.'

The innovation of financial capitalism was the lie that while it was fine to steal from others, no one was going to steal from you, honest.

And now the formal representational system has become so confused that it's no longer possible to be sure what theft means. It'll be the first criminal semiotic collapse in history.

In other news:

(Reuters) - The world's wealthiest people have responded to economic worries by buying gold by the bar -- and sometimes by the ton -- and by moving assets out of the financial system, bankers catering to the very rich said on Monday.

Fears of a double-dip downturn have boosted the appetite for physical bullion as well as for mining company shares and exchange-traded funds, UBS executive Josef Stadler told the Reuters Global Private Banking Summit.

"They don't only buy ETFs or futures; they buy physical gold," said Stadler, who runs the Swiss bank's services for clients with assets of at least $50 million to invest.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 07:22:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Local gold anecdote: flyer after flyer in the letterbox offering to buy whatever gold (or silver) you want to sell, jewellery, coins... best prices paid.

Began this summer. We're surely not alone in this?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 07:44:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No. Glenn Beck is at it too.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 07:50:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Same in Spain. Was going on before the summer but now it's everywhere.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 08:15:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
showing delighted old folks able to take the holiday of their dreams after selling their ugly old heirloom jewellery for bullion.

Poorly dubbed.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 12:28:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What is property will continue to be defined by the property definers, essentially the US. See the long (and in fact still ongoing, pace the lead to that article) WTO dispute in which the IP champion of the universe attempts to ignore geographical indicators (eg champagne, parmesan) because it suits the US agro-industry to rip these off use these (and no doubt register them as trademarks while they're about it).

The 800-pound gorilla says what belongs to whom.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 07:55:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, this is an excellent, quite succinct explanation.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 05:26:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
My view is that this corruption of "due process" will be incorporated and normalised so that it becomes the status quo. Meanwhile, the possibility of an organised response at legal or political level will be effectively neutered by a media that reflexively anticipates corporate preferences.

So, tens of thousands of people may well lose their homes in a fraudulent fashion and, while they may have suspicions there was something wrong with what happened, there will be nobody sufficiently well informed to join the dots and nobody sufficiently well positioned to do anything about it.

You've not spent enough time in America, clearly.  The lawyers have gotten ahold of this now, and it is going to explode.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 05:30:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And how.

No confirmation of this yet, but even if it's not true - and I wouldn't be surprised if it is - it shows which way this is heading.

From Market Ticker:

We now have confirmed instances, including 911 calls, of banks hiring people to break into homes where the foreclosure has not yet taken place, and in some instances, they're breaking into the wrong house.  That's illegal - until the bank has a court order giving them possession, they don't have possession and they have no right to be there.

(statute text snipped)

So when Mr. Bank Thug unlawfully comes into your home, is not a law enforcement officer who has properly identified himself, and unlawfully breaks down the door, you are, from my reading of this statute, within your rights to shoot him to stop that unlawful entry, as you have the presumption under Florida Law that his intention is to commit an unlawful act involving force or violence.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 05:43:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I wish I were surprised by that.  If this whole thing weren't such a sign of economic devastation, it'd be hilarious.  A lot of people are going to be on the wrong side of a prison cell.

And, yes, I believe Market Ticker has it right: You can shoot Mr Bank Thug.

It's going to take decades of investigations, court fights, and all kinds of fun stuff to sort this all out.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 05:54:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A lot of people are going to be on the wrong side of a prison cell.

Does this mean inside or outside?

by gk (gk) on Thu Oct 7th, 2010 at 12:35:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And, yes, I believe Market Ticker has it right: You can shoot Mr Bank Thug.

...adding: But only in Florida and Texas, I believe.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 05:56:30 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Answers.com - What is an affidavit of lost summons
A processor server who loses the original summons that was presented to (them) by the Plaintiff must file an affidavit stating that the original summons whereabouts cannot be located.
So the plaintiff hires a firm ostensibly to deliver a summons but in reality to pretend they lost the summons?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:07:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Guess if it is lost it is harder to prove it was a forgery. But when they have proof of single individuals signing thousands of documents a day and on dates that are already too late to be valid...

Next it will be: "Look the other way or the whole global economy will crash!" Good citizens we are we will do as told and the global economy will crash anyway. Only the perps will get off.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 04:15:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ARGeezer:
"Look the other way or the whole global economy will crash!"

lol

the already slim thread holding this whole hallucination together is fraying before our eyes.

what are they going to do when this hits the public awareness?

now i get it just how cantilevered the whole scam was, and how there is no escape from the fall.

thanks to your -any many others- i had semi grasped the conceptual level, and remember when so many said, "this is nothing, wait for the commercial real estate notes to come in, that's when the offal will really hit the fanerola"

but this is even more bizarre, those courts, are they behind closed doors? will these 90 second judgments become public record on youtube?

how will law schools even be able to teach law and look students in the eye, with stuff like this going down, without dissolving into hysterics?

guantanamo, well they were funny coloured terrists, so geneva conventions were quaint, but this is something else again, this strikes at the heart of what ever social pact capitalism might (pretend to) have with its own cargo cultists. eating its own, a financial frankenstein smashing down the lab walls and heading for downtown.

i think they have really gone too far, this shark is unjumpable...

now wtf what? what possible shred of cred can emerge from the rubble of the financial industry, (60% of GDP, was it?) ahead?

the singularity must not be far behind, lol.

looks up recipes for acorns...

"We can all be prosperous but we can't all be rich." Ian Welsh

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 05:11:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'll be content with the US fragmenting and we sane folks (ahem!) picking up the pieces.

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 05:17:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How are your combat skills, TWANK? I suspect that we could be fighting for pieces of anything. This could be the case in large cities in the case of total system disintegration such as you seem to imply. I'm old and my joints don't work too well, but I live in a small city but have enough land to grow my own food if I have to. I do plan to have a much better garden by next year. Complete with a fence with 6'6" posts which will provide a frame on which to put in a greenhouse, if needed. We all would be better off trying to avoid such an outcome. When gasoline goes over $5/gallon things will be bad enough.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 09:00:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
When gasoline goes over $5/gallon things will be bad enough.

I don't see that, people will complain, but will it really be the end of the world? in Europe, people cope with much higher petrol proices, and OK they complain, but we all survive, and we're not baricading ourselves into our houses and shooting the neighbours yet.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 09:17:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know. But in an economy whose structure is predicated on relatively cheap petroleum energy and which is integrated over a contenental scale, gas over $5/gal, etc. will start to make that structure creak and groan -- i.e. bad enough. Were prices to stabilize at those levels things might not be so bad, but how likely is that and for how long could it endure? And will that economy prosper with possible price swings for crude oil ranging from $70/bl. to $150/bl. over one year intervals?

Right now the power of fossil fuel incumbents in the USA continues to paralyze any real effort to prepare for a post petroleum economy. We already have U6 around 18%, so it is not likely that we will enter such a situation in a position of economic strength. Given the elan with which we generate and execute reasonable plans the prospects are not too encouraging.

I have seen estimates that the effects the drilling moritorium and of reasonable regulations in the Gulf of Mexico on oil production, combined with the existing rates of depletion, will result in oil imports increasing from about 67% to about 75% of total US consumption. If the Indian and Chinese economies continue to grow at any appreciable fraction of their recent rates we are going to see significant shortages. Nor do I find Luis' recent diary particularly comforting.

IF, big if, we could collectively pull our heads out of our asses we could use the impending shortage of oil as the reason to embark on a large scale program of switching to alternate modes of transportation, especially rail freight, powered by renewable energy, with the rights of way providing needed new capacity and new paths to tie our electrical grid together. That would have the added benefit of putting people to work at well paying jobs. But President "Change you can believe in" has not made much of a push in that direction. Likely his corporate clients don't want to see more well paying jobs. They see well paying jobs just siphoning off money they should be making -- regardless of how stupid and short-sighted that may be.  

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 12:28:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How are your combat skills, TWANK?

I think "survival" skills are more relevant, and even these are relatively nonexistent. Fortunately I gave myself permission to "leave" over 7 years ago; I hope the passage isn't too painful, that's all. I leave this glorious world, and all that human apes have done to it, to YOU! Lucky you!

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 06:50:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
As the I Ching says: "It is good to have someplace to go."

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 09:47:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The astute bargain would be to offer a "cure" based on an equitable settlement of claims with due process, taking into account the inflated values of the properties according to the month and year of the mortgages in return for full investigation and prosecution of those in the financial sector and elsewhere who were responsible. To work this would have to involve a write-down of the debt to current values. Chris Cook's debt equity swap might be a way forward here for the creditors. But most of the pain would have to fall on the financial sector and the players who were responsible in order for this to be worth doing. For the $12trillion involved the loss might be $6Trillion.

A massive stuffing of law, precedent, constitutions and any concept of due process is more likely. The beneficiaries of such a cramdown legal-political fix would certainly think that our constitution, legal traditions and society are hardly worth $6Trillion, even if their abrogation leaves them without an effective society in which to be rich.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 07:16:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
... even if their abrogation leaves them without an effective society in which to be rich.

Interesting word choice. If I read the ultrawealthy correctly an effective society is one in which they can do anything they damn well please, at any time, with little inconvenience, regardless of who/what gets harmed. That will continue, as long as a bullet/bomb/poison gas/biochemical agent doesn't find them.

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 07:27:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The judges and foreclosure mills running these scams are either phenomenally stupid and greedy - which is always possible - or they've been given reason to believe that they're never going to be called on it.

My guess is the latter. You need at least a reasonable IQ to pass bar exams, and I think it's unlikely that a judge is going to flout the law unless they've been reassured that there will be no consequences.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 08:18:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They probably have been given written opinions and instructions on the procedures they are to follow and been instructed that they are legally obliged to do this. Florida has a Republican House, Senate and Governor. It is interesting that probably most of the people being foreclosed in kangaroo foreclosure courts are probably Republicans.

Drew would know better than I what the current political situation is in Florida and what the available channels and networks are through which any understanding of the foregoing could be disseminated.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 08:44:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's fine for the judges, but I'm wondering what the point is for investors.

Beyond the Right's love of punching the (relatively) poor for its own sake, why enclose acres of real estate that's almost certainly impossible to sell for more than pennies, and will likely going to be left to rot?

Herds of milling homeless are hardly good for a state's economy.

Or am I being too rational about this, and punching poor people - because you can - is all this is really about?

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 08:52:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The way the financial sector has been behaving recently I strongly suspect that, once again, they are swinging wildly to one rail to deal with the immediate problem as perceived by one powerful sector and have not even considered the next step, let alone the next five steps. But that is just my guess. Recall how "the market" insisted that Greece, Ireland, Portugal, etc. had to impose austerity so they could pay their bills and only when they had done so did "the market" become concerned that the austerity might further undermine their ability to pay. I doubt that financial institutions that are finding themselves unable to legally foreclose are even considering what they will do with those properties if they succeed in forclosing, let alone what will happen when they are stuck with those empty houses. An arson epidemic?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 12:42:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Reminds me of again of the French revolution.

In the run-up to the French revolution, the landed nobility had taken to suing those peasants that had the audacity to own their land. Just find some old document or map, hire a surveyor to do some measuring and call in the lawyers to take their land. This of course led to surveyors being hated (one of the meter expeditions almost got hung when locals thought they were surveyors), archives burnt when the revolution came, and a (by the standards of those days) huge class of lawyers.

The peasant rebellion on the countryside is often ignored in the Paris-centric view on the revolution, but I think that without it, the conservative forces would have simply re-grouped and retaken Paris.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES!

by A swedish kind of death on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 03:19:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In the US the peasants are more likely to burn the revolutionaries.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 08:53:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now if y'all will excuse me, I'm going to go rent some farmland and buy some tomato seeds.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.
by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 11:57:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
Jerome has argued repeatedly that international markets are not going to drop the US$ as a standard because of the legal security ("who would want to have contract law disputes decided under the Russian or Iranian courts?" goes the rhetorical question)
More on the point (h/t Drew, again)

The Big Picture: Foreclosure Fraud Reveals Structural & Legal Crisis

"In the West, this formal property system begins to process assets into capital by describing and organizing the most economically and socially useful aspects about assets, preserving this information in a recording system--as insertions in a written ledger or a blip on a computer disk--and then embodying it in a title. A set of detailed and precise legal rules governs this entire process. Formal property records and titles thus represent our shared concept of what is economically meaningful about any asset. They capture and organize all the relevant information required to conceptualize the potential value of an asset and so allow us to control it . . .

The reason capitalism has triumphed in the West and sputtered in the rest of the world is because most of the assets in Western nations have been integrated into one formal representational system . . . By transforming people with real property interests into accountable individuals, formal property created individuals from masses. People no longer needed to rely on neighborhood relationships or make local arrangements to protect their rights to assets. They were thus freed to explore how to generate surplus value from their own assets."

-Hernando de Soto, The Mystery of Capital

>

The woes in the mortgage market are complex, deep and structural. This is more than just a few shortcuts taken by paralegals here and there -- there are endemic structural problems within the US real estate and mortgage markets.  (Yesterday, we touched upon the problems associated with foreclosure mills).



By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 12:37:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks Mig for bringing this up again. I was surprised that it didn't get more response earlier. Important stuff. Perhaps for news purposes September is like a whole month of Friday afternoons -- a good time to release information that one wants to go unnoticed.

And we need to keep Alan Greyson over here. Even if he goes back into private practice and defends bogus foreclosures. The problem that everyone has with this title mess is that it is the laws of 50 states that are the problems, some more than others. The State of Florida seems to have gotten creative and created some kangaroo foreclosure courts where defendants attorneys are given 90 seconds to make their case. They are staffed by retired judges, often without foreclosure experience.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Oct 5th, 2010 at 03:54:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
A few extreme examples.

Grand Rapids

Rick and Sherry Rought of Gowen paid cash for the old house, a $14,000 fixer-upper, for their daughter, Hannah, while she attended Ferris State University.
Seven months later, after the couple started repairs and moved in furniture, Deutsche Bank National Trust Co. foreclosed, hired a company to "trash out" the Roughts' belongings, and changed locks and turned off utilities, according to a lawsuit filed Monday in U.S. District Court.

Fort Lauderdale

When Jason Grodensky bought his modest Fort Lauderdale home in December, he paid cash. But seven months later, he was surprised to learn that Bank of America had foreclosed on the house, even though Grodensky did not have a mortgage.

Grodensky knew nothing about the foreclosure until July, when he learned that the title to his home had been transferred to a government-backed lender. "I feel like I'm hanging in the wind and I'm scared to death," said Grodensky. "How did some attorney put through a foreclosure illegally?"

Spring Hill, FL

Charlie and Maria Cardoso are among the millions of Americans who have experienced the misery and embarrassment that come with home foreclosure.

Just one problem: The Massachusetts couple paid for their future retirement home in Spring Hill with cash in 2005, five years before agents for Bank of America seized the house, removed belongings and changed the locks on the doors, according to a lawsuit the couple have filed in federal court.

by gk (gk) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 01:14:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It gets better:

Bank changes locks on occupied, foreclosed homes | HeraldTribune.com

The process of banks hiring people to break into homes, even when occupied, is just the latest oddity of the messy foreclosure crisis in Florida.

Some property owners are reporting the break-ins to law enforcement as burglaries. Yet investigators consider the disputes a civil matter because the contractors do not display criminal intent.

That essentially leaves the property owners without recourse.

What, then, constitutes "criminal intent"?

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 06:59:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The process of banks hiring people to break into homes ...

So the Onion goes real. LOL

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 07:04:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
When we have had our laughs we should really think about where this is ultimately going...

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 07:08:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Back when Carter got elected into office I had hope that things could/would get better. With Reagan I thought that this stupid bozo would go down the tubes. Guess what? Things have gotten worse since then. So where is this ultimately going? A race to the bottom for wages, environmental conditions, etc. You name it, if you're not one of the wealthy elite, welcome to Hell. Little hope for the kids.

Don't get me wrong. I'll roll up my sleeves and help California survive if given the chance. Will I be given that chance?

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 07:16:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It about globalising the lower and middle classes. It's inevitable in a globalised economy, and that's pretty much inevitable too. That or massive wars.

If the working class had any sense they'd be busy trying to flatten things upwards, but instead they'll vote for people who tell them that it's the other working class guys who are at fault. <shrug>

I expect we'll get the worst of both worlds - the third world distributed into Europe and the US and massive wars. Ain't life grand?

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 07:21:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's the $64000 question and I don't think any of us have a good answer. Quite frankly, the way the yarrow stalks are falling I fear there are no good outcomes.

Last night I laughed. But the more you look at it, the more it looks like an unravelling. do they understand this ? Just as with so much that's happening in the US (and consequently in the rest of the West) you have to ask two questions ;-

Do they understand what they're doing ?
Can they be stopped ?

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 07:49:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Do they understand what they're doing ?

Does a burglar break into your home by accident?

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 07:55:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's more akin to living in a block of flats made of wood and having the guy who lives above you break in to rob you and who then sets it on fire to get rid of the evidence. It's a lack of consideration for consequences.

keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 08:16:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In general criminals do criminal acts with the thought of not getting caught; i.e. no consequences.

What happens to you ... he/she couldn't care less.

Criminals ... the wealthy ... same psychology.

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 08:21:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen is not talking about whether they care about you. Her example is one where your upstairs neighbout sets fire to your apartment, thereby also burning their own.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 09:15:34 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But the wealthy never consider that they're putting themselves at risk. That's why they become wealthy; consequences are for "others". They'll always buy themselves, connive themselves out of anything.

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 09:35:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
All this talk is harshing my buzz. Need a break.

Ah, better!

The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 08:42:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
OK, back to serious stuff.



The good news ... it's only a life sentence. You eventually leave this planet of idiots.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 08:52:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen:
the more you look at it, the more it looks like an unravelling
That is the point of the quotations I picked from Yves at Naked Capitalism.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 08:21:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Rule of Law Versus Bank Profits: Mortgage Fraud Edition « naked capitalism
The battle lines are forming.

In the last two years, local attorneys working for the small minority of borrowers who contest foreclosures have reported a wide range of what in spin doctor land would be called irregularities. These reports were so widespread and consistent as to suggest that malfeasance was endemic, but without corroborating evidence that these abuses were happening on an institutionalized basis, it was easy to dismiss them as anecdotal.

The admission by GMAC that it produced improper affidavits, followed by suspension of foreclosures by GMAC, Chase, and Bank of America in 23 judicial foreclosures states, is the tip of the iceberg of widespread foreclosure abuses. Yet comparatively few members of the media have asked the right question: why would servicers and law firms engage in fraudulent activity on such a widespread basis?

...

We are seeing more recognition of the consequences of this clusterfuck, which in more polite company might be called, "My dog ate your mortgage."



By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 08:38:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Helen:
Do they understand what they're doing ?
Can they be stopped ?
It's all because of the profit motive...

Rule of Law Versus Bank Profits: Mortgage Fraud Edition « naked capitalism

Evidence is mounting that the various parties responsible for getting the notes (the borrower IOU into the securitization trust, failed to perform a series of tasks that were clearly set forth in the governing contract, the pooling and servicing agreement. These procedures were designed to thread a path through a complex thicket of multiple legal considerations (state real estate statutes, federal securities law, trust law, IRS provisions, to name a few). The failure to do it right means any retrospective fixes run afoul of multiple boundary conditions. Thus to industry participants, fraud, bizarrely, looks to be less bad than admitting to their colossal failures to respect contractual obligations and legal requirements.
(My emphasis)

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 08:39:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
G A S P !!

I'm rarely driven to poetry but only Yeats can tell this;-

TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 09:31:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What Yves describes so verbosely can be captured elegantly in two words: fleeing forward. The reason why people who commit a crime usually compound it with more crimes in their attempt to cover it up.

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 09:42:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sure, but then I have a question: what rough beast, its hour come round at last, slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char
by Melanchthon on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 10:03:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Irish magical nationalism, probably.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 10:14:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]
A friend who rides with us and I had an entertaining half hour last weekend describing to the group of the kids down the stables which parts of their national identity had been more-or-less entirely invented in the last 19th and early 20th C. I'm not sure they believed us. Maybe some history teachers will get some awkward questions in the future though.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 10:17:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But this is the U.S. What happens if you exercise your 2nd amendment rights (the only ones you have left)?
by gk (gk) on Wed Oct 6th, 2010 at 07:13:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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