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On the other hand, the EU accession process is imposing deindustrialization (such as the closing of shipbuilding docks), which is also a mistake.

To say the least! A company I have some shares in have had 10 absolute world class tankers built at Brodosplit shipyard. Let me rephrase that: Brodosplit Shipyard Company might well be one of the most competitive builders of the most demanding product tankers in the world.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Mon Nov 15th, 2010 at 07:32:47 PM EST
the EU accession process is imposing deindustrialization (such as the closing of shipbuilding docks)

So the EU accession process serves as an adjunct to the financial interests of incumbents in such a blatant manner? This seems, once more, like productive industry being sacrificed to the interests of finance. If not, why not?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Nov 15th, 2010 at 10:00:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No, it's not quite so blatant.

The problem is that the EU doesn't do industrial policy. In fact, it explicitly prohibits industrial policy as "unfair state support." Some companies (Siemens, Vestas, Vattenfall, etc.) are big enough and powerful enough that they can make their own industrial policy when the state fails to have one. Others... not so much. Trouble is, those companies are mainly located in the countries with structural balance of payment surpluses. So the rules tend to promote de-industrialisation of precisely the parts of Europe that are most in need of serious industrial policy to repair their balance of payments, since the € takes away their ability to conduct fiscal, monetary or ForEx policy according to their own needs.

(Oh, and there's the same sort of perverse incentive in this fixation on "markets" as in the US: The armaments industry, being a matter of "national security" is largely exempt from the no-industrial-policy clause...)

- Jake

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Nov 15th, 2010 at 10:22:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Thus peripheral countries may re-arm but must de-industrialise - a prescription for fascism?

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sat Nov 20th, 2010 at 05:24:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I hadn't considered it in quite those terms, but yes. Now that you mention it, that's precisely what it is.

- Jake

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Nov 20th, 2010 at 08:05:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
LTE?

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sat Nov 20th, 2010 at 10:17:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To which publication?

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot male dotty communists) on Sat Nov 20th, 2010 at 02:58:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Your favourite Irish newspaper?

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Nov 22nd, 2010 at 08:12:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
This is insane on its face.

I can't imagine any justification for closing a massive, productive shipyard that doesn't insult my intelligence.

Perhaps the Croats will see this and pull-back on Croatia joining the EU?  They have always struck me as more interested in the American way than that of the EU.

by paving on Tue Nov 16th, 2010 at 10:51:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The EU and the Croatian government are managing the impacts of accession and the public perception of same so incompetently, that I wouldn't be surprised if accession failed in a referendum...

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 16th, 2010 at 11:32:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Now, I do not know the mood in Croatia, but I am reminded of what a Macedon-Swedish person told me. According to him, in Macedonia students either study philosophy to intellectually motivate their depression or they study English and economics to escape to the West. The latter would surely vote for anything that facilitates an escape.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES!
by A swedish kind of death on Tue Nov 16th, 2010 at 01:25:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It is not clear this is about Brodosplit

Croatia launches new bid to privatise ailing shipyard -- EU business news - EUbusiness.com

Croatia's shipbuilding industry enjoys heavy government subsidies that it will have to stop once the country joins the EU.

...

The six state-owned shipyards, of which only Uljanik in the northern port of Pula is solvent, employ around 11,500 people.

Experts warn that all Croatian shipyards need a radical overhaul, saying they are technologically inferior and suffer from low productivity, overstaffing and outdated management.



Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 16th, 2010 at 01:16:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Experts warn that all Croatian shipyards need a radical overhaul, saying they are technologically inferior and suffer from low productivity, overstaffing and outdated management.

Who are these "experts" and how is this statement reconciled with Starvid's comment above?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Nov 16th, 2010 at 01:52:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Obviously they have managers that do not understand that efficiency is always reached by firing employees and hiring consultants to tell them which 30% to fire. Obviously out-dated management style.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES!
by A swedish kind of death on Tue Nov 16th, 2010 at 02:56:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The 'Usual Suspects'! Naturally Brussels would be thoroughly infested. The EU Bureaucracy would be the largest target of opportunity after Washington and London. It reminds me of a grotesque joke:

A little girl has a clubbed left hand and is saying her bedtime prayers, her clubbed hand pressed against her good hand:

"Please, God! Make both of my hands alike."

Behold! Her prayer is answered.

Both hands are now clubbed.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Nov 16th, 2010 at 05:49:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And if Croatian shipyards are closed, which shipyards in EU member states would likely pick up the slack?

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Nov 16th, 2010 at 03:05:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'd guess the business would move to South Korea.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Tue Nov 16th, 2010 at 07:22:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now explain to me how EU member states are supposed to all become next exporters.

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 17th, 2010 at 04:15:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Easy. Just use gradually phased out subsidies for your heavy industry, devalue your currency and use fiscal policy as appropriate to secure full employment, with a bias towards using fiscal stimulus to procure the products of your domestic heavy industry and precision engineering industry.

Oh, wait... You said EU member states? Nevermind, then.

- Jake

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Nov 17th, 2010 at 06:09:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What what? I never claimed that. Or maybe you were ironic?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Wed Nov 17th, 2010 at 11:56:11 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Refer back to this comment and its parents...

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 17th, 2010 at 12:00:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In which I questioned the claim that all EU members actually were net exporters...

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Wed Nov 17th, 2010 at 12:26:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Maybe they get massive subsidies? They build great ships, but the low cost might be due to subsidies? I don't know. The Brodosplit yard is a listed company IIRC, even if the state holds the majority of the shares.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid on Tue Nov 16th, 2010 at 07:21:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They build great ships, but the low cost might be due to subsidies?

And the EU can't have that... Better to buy crap ships without the subsidies...

Of all the ways of organizing banking, the worst is the one we have today — Mervyn King, 25 October 2010

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Nov 17th, 2010 at 02:50:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ships are supposed to be cost efficient.

Anyway, I give you the P-Max, probably the most energy-efficient product tanker class in the history of shipping, built at Brodsplit.

   

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid on Wed Nov 17th, 2010 at 11:59:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Could you come up with a link that would get me more info? I'm interested.
Glad you brought this up.

We keep searching for reasons for predation, when predation as a business model is its own reason.
As well ask a lawnmower to have mercy on the grass.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Nov 19th, 2010 at 03:01:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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