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geezer in Paris:
it's too easy to just write the whole thing off as sensationalism, opportunism

That's not what I'm doing. And anyone is free to find value in the fiction. I thought I did, long ago. I now consider I was deluded. Not because, I hasten to add, another story took that one's place. Like Christian religion, the whole thing just fell away from me like a reptile's sloughing.

(Right, I'm a snake ;))

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 08:38:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think it's important to distinguish between presentation/process and content.

Castaneda's MO turned into a classic, texbook cult leader operation. There was money, there were groupies, there was endless internal drama and a lot of people's lives were destroyed. By the rules of these things, it was cult operation 101.

This doesn't mean Seriously Weird Shit Never Happens.

But that's part of the problem. If you want to have more Seriously Weird Shit happening in your life, and better control over Seriously Weird Shit that may be happening already, are Castaneda's methods useful or un-useful?

Was he actually a valuable expert on Seriously Weird Shit, or was he just a novelist writing in an off-beat setting? If he was just a novelist - which he seems to have been - taking Castaneda literally is a little like expecting Gandalf or Leto Atreides to knock on your door just because Lord of the Rings and Dune were an entrancing read.

If you want to find out how truly valuable someone is, check what happens to his or her followers. Most gurus and systems, including Castaneda's, fail badly when you do this.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 09:01:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
If you want to find out how truly valuable someone is, check what happens to his or her followers. Most gurus and systems, including Castaneda's, fail badly when you do this.

ye olde acid test... seems like there's nothing so corrupting as adulation.

ambition to power-over is key here, no matter the flava.

The power of knowledge is in mortal combat with the knowledge of power. It really is that simple... That's the Edenic apple we are all munching on.

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 09:16:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Quite a turn here, from the notion of childhood dreams as foundational for the future, to what has come to be seen as a quasi-death cult based on the dubious interpretation of a Yaqui shaman who may or may not have existed.

Phew!

That said,--- it seems to me--

Castaneda, and all his followers/disciples' reasoning, or lack of such, (are these even the right words?), as well as their motivations and his, might be discernible, but only through a far more direct knowledge than any of us posses.

I read the Salon piece, and it made a fair attempt to be even-handed, but it clearly wasn't easy. There's such a perfect archetype for the story to be shaped by.

When I re-read a couple of his books a few years ago, I was disappointed. I wondered that I could have been so easily impressed those long years ago. Then I skimmed the original, and ran across his essay in which Don Juan talks about the four enemies of a warrior, and I remembered what it was that I saw there.
I wish I had the book- I'd reproduce that bit.
But it would not change anything.  

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.

by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 10:11:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]

http://www.thinking-approach.org/index.php?id=354

Of course there will be something that provides a sense of some wisdom, though it comes down to some rather obvious things, face your fear, etc. But then some people go on to believe in flying Don Juans who turn into animals, etc. :-)

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 12:31:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is this the essay?

I meant specifically through the lives and actions of the inner circle. If there's concentrated manna, that's where you'd expect to find it, surely. If a guru promises enlightenment or special powers, then followers should be able to show enlightenment or special powers. At the very least they should show some progress towards same.

But if the inner circle is dysfunctional, where's the wisdom?

And also - all of the same attempts to mine from the same seam, from Christian Science to Castaneda to all of the modern retellings, make the same promise, which is individualised heroic mastery.

It's very, very easy to make a living telling people that they're warriors, masters, or whatever, and that if they do X, Y, or Z anything is possible.

It's also politically poisonous because it distracts people from a more complex reality of interdependence and synergy. No one's going to celebrate you or buy your books if you tell them that infinite power is an infantile dream and the truth is we're all in this together, personal power is limited and dependent on others, and somehow we all have to get along.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 01:06:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
individualised heroic mastery

That's spot on.

ThatBritGuy:

No one's going to (celebrate you or buy your books) pay you any attention if you tell them that infinite power is an infantile dream and the truth is we're all in this together, personal power is limited and dependent on others, and somehow we all have to get along.

That's true. But if we could succeed in that, we'd have found the new story.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Mon Nov 8th, 2010 at 03:06:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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