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When there is a greater diversity of political representatives who have lived real lives and worked in real jobs before entering politics.

That won't help. Once they've been in politics seven years they'll have mostly forgotten their past. Until they've been in politics for ten years they won't be effective. We're a bit fucked if that's our best hope.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 06:26:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Then there should be a limit on the number of terms an MP can do?  Higher turnover, less chance of becoming totally institutionalised.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 06:33:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Nope, because then they never get to be effective. It takes a couple of years to learn the ropes before you can do anything. They'd end up being even more at the mercy of a professional class of "support staff".

You're doomed anyway you do it. You have to change the environment the parliament operates in - which means the ideological and media environment.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 06:36:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To begin with, a reduction of the number of MPs will hopefully contribute to a more transparent, influential and infinitely more efficient Parliament.
by hitchhiker on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 06:59:44 AM EST
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Reducing the number of MPs means that they´ll represent an even larger group of voters. Which probably means that they´ll be even less inclined to help any "minority" (poor or disadvantaged people for example).

Not to mention that a larger "voting district" probably means you need more money for ads, flyers or election staff in an election.

And of course fewer MPs means that interest groups need to "influence" fewer people to advance their interests.
Coupled with the larger " voting districts" mentioned above this seems to be a recipe for larger "interest group" influence.

Just look at the US Senate.

by Detlef (Detlef1961_at_yahoo_dot_de) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 06:17:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
High turnover, however, might result in less stability and it would be more difficult for relationships of trust to be built and sustained.
by hitchhiker on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 06:54:05 AM EST
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Too many politicians have taken the student politics->researcher->politician line and too many have come into politics as either Lawyers and accountants. with such a narrow ideas base we are going to see a narrowing of possible solutions to problems too.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 07:28:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So we need to widen the base.  That's what I'm trying do.  Selection processes are hugely problematic because we need to shift attitudes of the membership to understand and embrace the need for diversity in the people they are selecting.  We need politicians who 'grew up' outside of the Party machine, and who have wider backgrounds than the student officer/party researcher/lawyer lot.  

I think there is a place for some career politicians but we are totally overwhelmed by them at the moment.

If we have enough people who are in politics because they genuinely want to serve the public and they are motivated by their own experiences and personal insights of inequality, then maybe they stand a chance of not becoming totally institutionalised and removed from their experiences and those of others.  

New ideas will come in if we get new people in - people who will be willing to find ways of persuading the public that messages from the 'Spirit Level' are the ones to listen to and act on, and not the continuing Thatcherite rhetoric.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 08:29:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am not entirely sure that someone with say public policy, politics, international relations background and / or research background is necessarily a bad choice when it comes to deciding who should enter politics and who would represent us best!
A generalisation of this nature and magnitude does not do justice to all these young and bright and genuinely smart people who leave the university halls inspired to join central or local authorities and who honestly believe they can bring about the change that is needed. Besides, these recent graduates are equipped with the necessary knowledge base and are a way more capable of making informed decisions than say someone who comes from an entirely irrelevant education background.
by hitchhiker on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 10:04:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That is why I said that there is a place for some career politicians who have gone through that route.

The problem is that they are 'trained' in quite a narrow way along the lines of a particular ideology and a particular way of working and after time, if personal experience or insight into the experiences of others doesn't show them other alternatives or consequences, then they get stuck in a narrow minded way of thinking.  You need people outside of that arena to help influence the evolution of ideologies, the construction of social problems and their causes and from that the development of solutions that may actually work.

If politics consisted only of people who had nothing more than 'real life' to go on and no firm political training, that would be equally disasterous!

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 10:13:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've just noticed that I'm referring specifically to elected political representatives whereas your reference is regarding those who go into civil service? Correct me if I'm wrong.

I know plenty of talented civil servants, but some very obstructive (or just plain useless) ones too.  The remit is different and it is up to politicians to choose how much they rely on the civil servants and how much they use their own brains to think through the issues and provide leadership.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 10:17:21 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was referring to civil servants indeed but I do believe that the same thing applies to elected representatives. Without trying to undermine in any way the amalgamation of virtues and qualities (honesty, integrity, reliability, responsibility, kindness to name a few) which undoubtedly any MP should be an embodiment of, I still believe that MPs with degrees in politics / public policy are better able to adequately address and respond to the needs / problems of their constituencies. Having completed bachelor and / or master programmes in relevant subjects, these people obviously boast deep and well-grounded understanding of policy frameworks, policy evaluation, theories, policy stages and cycles, etc. That said they are well aware of the challenges ahead and the constraints, within which they have to operate while pursuing any policy objective.
by hitchhiker on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 11:01:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
True, and this is one of the reasons why I am now doing a social policy degree, so I understand the policy formation process much better. I have to say that I don't think that alone would place me well in politics.  It merely strengthens the concepts I already hold in my head built upon by experience, and provides me with a means for articulating those concepts and the tools for deconstructing them.

But one thing I have noticed with my Open University degree is that they are very progressive in the way they define issues and teach social policy.  I imagine other courses could choose differing ideologies as a base for discussion and I have heard complaints from people who think the OU course is too 'left wing'. ie the examples used to critique different theories and perspectives and conclusions drawn within the structure of the course may differ depend on the leanings of the authors of the syllabus.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 11:20:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think what I'm really trying to say is that although it is important to understand the process and how politics works, you still need personal reference points to understanding the ultimate impact of policy on real lives.

Ad astra per aspera
by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 11:23:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Many swedish politicians has degrees in politics / public policy but it does not seem to have any effect then giving them a set of tropes in common with the civil servants. Tropes like "direct democracy is bad because who do you fire if the people change their mind?", "any decision made by an elected body is democratic", "single issue movements is irresponsible".

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Tue Feb 2nd, 2010 at 09:48:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem is not that they lack ability, the problem is that they lack diversity.

Monoculture is bad, because it permits diseases to spread rapidly once they have adapted to the monoculture environment. This is doubly true for diseases of the mind, because they are being actively cultivated and weaponised and various belief tanks.

And, not to put too fine a point upon it, most university grads don't know shit about how things work (or not, as the case may be) for people who do not have the advantages bestowed upon academics.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Mon Feb 1st, 2010 at 10:15:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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