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Government should provide necessary public services and basic welfare.
by kjr63 on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 04:21:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What are necessary public services?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 04:56:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The answer to that question is culture-dependent. And what is physically impossible will in short order be expunged out of the culture...

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 05:31:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Even before culture-dependent, ideology-dependent.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 05:40:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ideologies are culture-dependent.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 05:43:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ideologies can spread across cultures, even if the result is local versions. Ideologies can also quickly replace each other (say years to decades). What's so culture-specific about neoliberalism, for example?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 05:52:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]
bit of a chicken-egg thing, isn't it?

maybe they are _inter_dependent. a rocky marriage...

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 10:48:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
re: inter-dependency

The distinction I make in the meaning of ideology and culture is rather simple but serves me well. Ideology is an intellectual activity. Culture is a physical activity.
Intellectual activity produces worldly artifacts, the objects people make real, or culture. These artifacts are behavioral (subjective, intangible) and tangible things such as spoken and written language(s), music, architecture, costume, tools.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.

by Cat on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 01:09:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Ideology is the narrative we invent to bridge the gap between the limits of our perception (culture) and our contradictory observations.

That is, it's a largely conscious (in the sense that its tenets can be brought to self awareness) fudge between an unconscious map of how the world ought to be and the undeniable aspects of reality.

They usually have a culpable "other", have you noticed?  Whether it's single mothers, asylum seekers or neolibs...

by Sassafras on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 02:33:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not if it takes a long time for the impossibility to become so obvious that it becomes impossible to ignore.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 07:22:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
...and that depends on public awareness. right now, most are still flummoxed, but slowly getting some clues things ain't right, not even close, except for the increasingly few.

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 10:51:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Way back when...
Adam Smith: The Wealth of Nations (Project Gutenberg)
By necessaries I understand, not only the commodities which are indispensibly necessary for the support of life, but whatever the custom of the country renders it indecent for creditable people, even of the lowest order, to be without. A linen shirt, for example, is, strictly speaking, not a necessary of life. The Greeks and Romans lived, I suppose, very comfortably, though they had no linen. But in the present times, through the greater part of Europe, a creditable day-labourer would be ashamed to appear in public without a linen shirt, the want of which would be supposed to denote that disgraceful degree of poverty, which, it is presumed, nobody can well fall into without extreme bad conduct. Custom, in the same manner, has rendered leather shoes a necessary of life in England. The poorest creditable person, of either sex, would be ashamed to appear in public without them. In Scotland, custom has rendered them a necessary of life to the lowest order of men; but not to the same order of women, who may, without any discredit, walk about barefooted. In France, they are necessaries neither to men nor to women; the lowest rank of both sexes appearing there publicly, without any discredit, sometimes in wooden shoes, and sometimes barefooted. Under necessaries, therefore, I comprehend, not only those things which nature, but those things which the established rules of decency have rendered necessary to the lowest rank of people. All other things I call luxuries, without meaning, by this appellation, to throw the smallest degree of reproach upon the temperate use of them. Beer and ale, for example, in Great Britain, and wine, even in the wine countries, I call luxuries. A man of any rank may, without any reproach, abstain totally from tasting such liquors. Nature does not render them necessary for the support of life; and custom nowhere renders it indecent to live without them.
So, clearly, what constitutes a "decent" standard of living is partly a cultural construct.


En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 05:37:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So, clearly, what constitutes a "decent" standard of living is partly a cultural construct.

That's Migeru, not Adam Smith. (I did a double take).

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 05:41:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Gah. I want my TribExt.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 05:43:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
return to an earlier FF version then.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 06:13:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Work firewall - I'm stuck with IE.

En un viejo país ineficiente, algo así como España entre dos guerras civiles, poseer una casa y poca hacienda y memoria ninguna. -- Gil de Biedma
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 06:20:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
poor you.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 07:49:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
no cheap 3G mobile in the breast pocket. with the hankie.

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 12:12:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
For a moment it seemed the last sentence was by Smith too...

Un roi sans divertissement est un homme plein de misères
by linca (antonin POINT lucas AROBASE gmail.com) on Thu Feb 4th, 2010 at 05:42:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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