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France24 - PM hands 'national identity' debate over to committee

Prime Minister François Fillon (left) said an "experts committee" would take over the debate on French national identity, bringing an end to months of public debate on the tricky and divisive issue.

Wrapping up months of public debate on the sticky issue of French national identity at a specially convened cabinet meeting Monday, French Prime Minister François Fillon announced a set of initiatives aimed at "deepening" the discussion on what it means to be French.  Speaking to reporters at the prime minister's office, the Matignon, in Paris after a two-hour meeting Monday, Fillon said he would recommend the creation of a civic guide for young people and more civics education in schools.   Flanked by French Immigration Minister Eric Besson, who initiated the debate, and Education Minister Luc Chatel, Fillon also proposed the formation of an "experts committe" -- made up of politicians and historians -- to continue pondering an issue that has divided public opinion in France.

by Fran (fran at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Feb 8th, 2010 at 02:29:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Le triomphe de la diversité - Metro (Mis à jour 07-02-2010 23:38)The Triumph of Diversity - Metro (Updated 2010 February 7 23:38)
Selon le sondage de Metro, 77% des Français apprécient la diversité des origines et des cultures.According to a poll by Metro, 77% of French value diversity in ethnic origins and in cultures.
Alors que le débat sur l'iden­tité nationale, rythmé par les polémiques, s'est cristallisé autour de l'immigration et de l'islam, un sondage réalisé par TNS-Sofres pour l'association "Equi­ty Lab" et "Metro" montre que les Français sont loin de se crisper sur ces questions : une écrasante majorité d'entre eux (77 %) juge que la diversité des cultures et des origines est une bonne chose.While the debate on national identity, drummed on with controversies, has congealed around immigration and Islam, a poll carried out by Metro and TNS-Sofres for the organization Equity Lab shows that the French are far from struggling over these questions: a crushing majority of them (77%) believe that diversity of cultures and ethnic origins is a good thing.
L'idée selon laquelle "les personnes d'origine étrangère qui vivent en France devraient renoncer à leur culture d'origine pour adopter la culture française" est d'autre part rejetée en bloc (à 71 %), tandis que 54 % des sondés déclarent ne pas être gênés par l'idée d'avoir une collègue musulmane qui porterait le foulard.
Partenariat
Equity Lab est une association travaillant à l'émergence de nouvelles problématiques sur les questions de diversité et d'action positive. www.equity.lab.fr
The idea according to which "people of foreign origin who live in France should renounce their culture of origin to adopt the French culture" is also rejected outright (at 71%), while 54% of those polled said they were not bothered by the idea of having a Muslim colleague who wore a headscarf [presumably, a so-called Muslim one].
Partnership
Equity Lab is an organization that deals with the emergence of new issues on questions of diversity and positive action. www.equity.lab.fr
"Les Français, qui ont compris qu'ils vivaient dans une société multiculturelle, sont plus mûrs et plus apaisés que leurs élites sur ce qu'est la France d'aujourd'hui, analyse Laurence Méhaignerie, présidente d'Equity Lab. Le débat sur l'identité nationale a donné le sentiment qu'il n'y avait qu'une seule façon d'être français, mais cette enquête montre que l'opinion a une vision beaucoup moins figée du pacte républicain que celle exprimée par la classe politique"."The French, who have understood that they live in a multicultural society, are calmer and more mature than their elites about what France is today," weighs in Laurence Méhaignerie, president of Equity Lab. "The debate on national identity gave the feeling that there was only one way to be French, but this survey shows that public opinion has a vision of the republican pact that is much less frozen than that expressed by the political class."
A l'heure des polémiques sur la burqa, les responsables politiques sont d'ailleurs prévenus : 64% des Français estiment qu'ils "dramatisent toujours les questions de religion".
During this hour of controversy about the burqa, politicians should take heed: 64% of French judge that they "still/always dramatize questions of religion".
Méthodologie
Enquête Equity Lac-TNS Sofres réalisée auprès d'un échantillon de 1.060 personnes, représentatif de la population française âgée de 15 ans et plus, interrogé en face-à-face et à domicile, entre le 29 janvier et le 3 février, et constitué selon la méthode des quotas après stratification géographique.
Méthodologie
The Equity Labs-TNS Sofres survey carried out on 1060 people, representing French population aged 15 and older, polled face to face and at home, between January 29 and February 3, and selected according to the quota method after a geographic stratification [?].

La diversité des origines et des cultures de la population française est-elle pour vous ... ?

The diversity of ethnic origins and cultures in the French population is for you...?

Une bonne chose / A good thing
Une mauvaise chose / A bad thing
Sans opinion / No opinion

Les personnes d'origine étrangère qui vivent en France devraient renoncer à leur culture d'origine pour adopter la culture française... Etes-vous d'accord ou pas avec cette opinion ?

People of foreign origin who live in France should renounce their culture of origin to adopt French culture... Do you agree or not with this opinion?

D'accord / Agree
Pas d'accord / Don't agree
Sans opinion / No opinion

En France, tout le monde a des chances de réussir quelle que soit la couleur de sa peau... Etes-vous d'accord ou pas avec cette opinion ?

In France, everybody has chances to succeed whatever the color of their skin...  Do you agree or disagree with this opinion?

D'accord / Agree
Pas d'accord / Don't agree
Sans opinion / No opinion

And from the Equity Lab press release, a point not mentioned in the Metro article wherein multiculturalisme meets laïcité:

SONDAGE EQUITY LAB / TNS SOFRES | Equity Lab (COMMUNIQUE DE PRESSE - 07/02/2010)EQUITY LAB / TNS SOFRES SURVEY | Equity Lab (PRESS RELEASE - 2010 February 7)
Paradoxalement, l'idée de pouvoir choisir ses congés en fonction des différentes fêtes religieuses est largement repoussée.Paradoxically, the idea of being able to choose one's vacations based on different religious holidays is largely rejected.


The march of civilizations is a series of defenses that man has put up against the dread of pure existence.
by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Tue Feb 9th, 2010 at 04:04:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In England, multiculturalism has been extensively described as a gift to be embraced rather than a problem to be solved! And this is the result of 12 years of Labour power!

Whilst there is nothing wrong with this kind of attitude - on the contrary, it is highly commendable, some people have voiced their concern that celebrating multiculturalism has been the Government's way of blunting nationalist aspirations, banishing those to the history books and reassuring they will never resurface again. Curiously enough, I was first acquainted with this view while reading an article, posted by an immigrant living in Leicestershire! This is the link: http://conservativehome.blogs.com/platform/2010/02/leon-hadjinikolaou-why-i-as-an-immigrant-hate-the -way-labour-has-used-multiculturalism-to-undermine-.html

The author does make some valid points. For example, when he talks about Culture A and Culture B and how it sounds insane asking people of culture A (if they form 90% of the population of a given country) to stop practising their culture and way of life just so representatives of culture B do not feel alienated, uncomfortable and not fitting into the picture.

by hitchhiker on Tue Feb 9th, 2010 at 07:12:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ConservativeHome's Platform: Leon Hadjinikolaou: Why I, as an immigrant, hate the way Labour has used multiculturalism to undermine the British national culture
Multiculturalists, however, advocate that the culture A must stop practising their culture in order not to make culture B feel uncomfortable.

I do not agree with this description of multiculturalism.  What multiculturalists have advocated such a position?  Can you provide any specific examples that would illustrate Mr. Hadjinikolaou's premise?

The march of civilizations is a series of defenses that man has put up against the dread of pure existence.

by marco (cowannar at gmail punkt com) on Tue Feb 9th, 2010 at 07:41:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
From the same article
Let's have a look on some examples of peaceful immigration.

Between 1880 and 1900 there was a significant movement of Jews from Eastern Europe to Ottoman Syria and the United States.

Between 1840 and 1900, a large number of Germans emigrated to the United States. Today there are approximately 50,000,000 German-Americans.

In 1820 a large number of Irish migrated to the United States for purely economic reasons, well before the Famine. A second wave of Irish immigration happened during the Great Irish Famine in 1845. Today more than 35,000,000 Americans trace their ancestry to Ireland.

As far as we can see, there was no big fuss about these waves of immigration.

Is there any reason to discuss this article further?
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Feb 9th, 2010 at 07:55:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No big fuss, unless you count the institutionalised anti-semitism in the US before WWII, and earlier.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Feb 9th, 2010 at 08:08:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Between 1880 and 1900 there was a significant movement of Jews from Eastern Europe to Ottoman Syria

I.e., Palestine. No big fuss?

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Tue Feb 9th, 2010 at 08:10:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
No big fuss unless you're Native American, either.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Feb 9th, 2010 at 09:32:33 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Or hispanic. Or of African ancestry.
by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Feb 9th, 2010 at 10:22:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Between 1840 and 1900, a large number of Germans emigrated to the United States. Today there are approximately 50,000,000 German-Americans.

Cough!

And I'll give my consent to any government that does not deny a man a living wage-Billy Bragg

by ManfromMiddletown (manfrommiddletown at lycos dot com) on Tue Feb 9th, 2010 at 10:36:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, except he's talking utter nonsense that relates mainly to the universe in his head.

The key problem with multi-culturalism is that it classifies people by nebulous ideas of "culture". It's divide and conquer by skin colour and where your ancestors came from.

For example, when he talks about Culture A and Culture B and how it sounds insane asking people of culture A

It does sound insane. In fact, it's so insane that I've never seen anyone suggest doing it except for those busy constructing strawmen.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Tue Feb 9th, 2010 at 09:26:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Fran:
pondering an issue that has divided public opinion in France

Nuts. The whole "identity debate" was a transparent fake from the start.

It is now being turned over to a commission, in other words, a burial party.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Feb 9th, 2010 at 05:02:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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