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Really only the RC Church has had formal delusions of infallibility, and that relatively recently in its history.  The other denominations tend to see their Churches as a community which is hopefully divinely inspired, but - because of human fallibility - which can also get things wrong sometimes.  

The latter views the Church more as a journey through history than as a final destination and acknowledges past mistakes on slavery, fascism, anti-semitism, Apartheid, segreation etc.  It is interesting to note that these "errors" can all be attributed to viewing your community as somehow morally superior and the "out-group" - be they blacks, Jews, Communists, Women, Gays etc.- as somehow evil or inferior and thus deserving of a worse fate as God's punishment for that inderiority or sin.

There seems to be a deep human need (perhaps historically or religiously created or reinforced) to define Good and Evil, to identify yourself as belonging to the good, and some suitable outgroup as embodying the evil.  Success or empowerment is then deemed a reward for virtue, and the weakness of others justified by their sin.

This paradigm lends itself to warlike, polarising, adversarial forms of politics.  It's a great way to rationalise gross inequalities, exploitation and oppression.

It's interesting to note that this Good/Evil polarisation and labelling of the other as evil is not characteristic of Buddhism or some of the more metaphysical forms of Islam or Christianity.  Indeed Jesus' intervention in Jewish tradition can be read as an attempt to end the Good/Evil : Insider/Outsider : Jew/Gentile duality of that tradition.

The common characteristic of sects is their need to develop very clear boundaries with non members on the basis that non-members cannot be "saved" without their special knowledge or virtue.  Hence the strong trend towards a mystification of history, the natural world and current reality.  Thus Evolution, tectonic plate theory, and climate change must all be opposed because they challenge the Good/Evil polarity as the driving force of history.  They effect that Good and evil equally, and thus cannot be used as a basis for in-group, out-group differentiation.

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notes from no w here

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Feb 10th, 2010 at 04:03:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Indeed Jesus' intervention in Jewish tradition can be read as an attempt to end the Good/Evil : Insider/Outsider : Jew/Gentile duality of that tradition.

AFAIK, the conventional wisdom among religious historians is that this is a post-hoc rationalisation born of the fact that Paul went and converted a whole empire full of Gentiles to the sect.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Feb 10th, 2010 at 04:12:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes, but those Gentiles could never have become Jews.  They could become Christians because (arguably) Jesus had universalised or de-contextualised and absolutised some of the aspects of Jewish tradition.  He rejected Jewish teaching on the Sabbath, on who constituted their neighbour, and how they should relate to Romans or gentiles.  There is nothing specifically Jewish about the Sermon of the Mount or the declaration that Moses' ten commandments could be summarised as a command to Love God and Your neighbour as yourself...

notes from no w here
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Wed Feb 10th, 2010 at 04:19:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It would be more correct to say that Saul/Paul initiated that interpretation, which is why he went and converted Gentiles etc.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Feb 10th, 2010 at 04:28:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or that he initiated it because he wanted to go and convert Gentiles...

Or that he simply broke with the original doctrine over it, because he wanted to go and convert Gentiles, and the original doctrine faded into obscurity because limiting yourself to proselytising to a small and already devout group of monotheists is not really a smart way to increase market share.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Feb 10th, 2010 at 04:59:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually the Jews were converting Gentiles as well. Sometimes by force, as in the case of the Idumeans, and sometime not, as may be the case for the Jewish kingdoms of Arabia, Northern Africa and the Khazars. The Christians seemed to have done a much better job of it, though.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Feb 10th, 2010 at 05:08:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What original doctrine?

The earliest texts of the New Testament (before the Gospels) are considered to be by Paul - certainly the first Epistle to the Thessalonians, and possibly even earlier, Galatians. This is the late '40s, early '50s. Jesus is held to have died in 33 (give or take a few years). The set of beliefs around JC's divinity and sacrifice for the sins of mankind grew very fast. Paul had a major hand in shaping them.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28)

This is one of the earliest statements of Christian doctrine (again, written before the Gospels), and it's a declaration of the universality of Christianity. It goes considerably further than the Jew/Gentile question, since it includes slave/free and man/woman. I don't know whether Paul came up with it just because he wanted to evangelize Gentiles, or because he had a sharp eye on the marketing - but quite possibly he was consumed with passion for the revolutionary belief expressed there, and he was not alone in holding it, as early as AD 50.

My point being that the post-hoc rationalisation idea doesn't correspond to history; the earliest known statements of Christian doctrine are in fact universalist.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 11th, 2010 at 03:33:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and the first gospel dosn't turn up in Written form till at least 72 AD (Wow my memory from 31 years ago still works)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 11th, 2010 at 09:52:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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