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Or that he initiated it because he wanted to go and convert Gentiles...

Or that he simply broke with the original doctrine over it, because he wanted to go and convert Gentiles, and the original doctrine faded into obscurity because limiting yourself to proselytising to a small and already devout group of monotheists is not really a smart way to increase market share.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Feb 10th, 2010 at 04:59:55 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Actually the Jews were converting Gentiles as well. Sometimes by force, as in the case of the Idumeans, and sometime not, as may be the case for the Jewish kingdoms of Arabia, Northern Africa and the Khazars. The Christians seemed to have done a much better job of it, though.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Feb 10th, 2010 at 05:08:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What original doctrine?

The earliest texts of the New Testament (before the Gospels) are considered to be by Paul - certainly the first Epistle to the Thessalonians, and possibly even earlier, Galatians. This is the late '40s, early '50s. Jesus is held to have died in 33 (give or take a few years). The set of beliefs around JC's divinity and sacrifice for the sins of mankind grew very fast. Paul had a major hand in shaping them.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:28)

This is one of the earliest statements of Christian doctrine (again, written before the Gospels), and it's a declaration of the universality of Christianity. It goes considerably further than the Jew/Gentile question, since it includes slave/free and man/woman. I don't know whether Paul came up with it just because he wanted to evangelize Gentiles, or because he had a sharp eye on the marketing - but quite possibly he was consumed with passion for the revolutionary belief expressed there, and he was not alone in holding it, as early as AD 50.

My point being that the post-hoc rationalisation idea doesn't correspond to history; the earliest known statements of Christian doctrine are in fact universalist.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Feb 11th, 2010 at 03:33:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
and the first gospel dosn't turn up in Written form till at least 72 AD (Wow my memory from 31 years ago still works)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Feb 11th, 2010 at 09:52:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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