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I'm talking about situations where an individual is not able to physically carry out the act of suicide by themselves.  They need help but don't want anyone who assists them to end up in prison for it.  It would require the person to make a choice before reaching that stage or to still be 'sound of mind' when at that stage to give consent or to ask for assistance.  I won't pretend it isn't a huge grey area in terms of how you regulate such a thing.  

Anti-euthanasia campaigners point out the what if you have a relative who just wants to bump off their elderly Mum and Dad without their consent?  This happens in practice anyway, and often goes undetected as a 'natural death'.  That isn't choice anymore than being forced to live is.

I'd rather be able to have on record what my wishes are in a situation where my quality of life is too low to want to be here anymore.  How is that much different from people who have Do Not Resuscitate on their medical charts?

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Tue Feb 9th, 2010 at 05:35:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Those are good points, but I'm more worried about whether your medical system administrators want to "bump you off" in benign ways by being able to create a moral discourse around personal responsibility in opting for less expensive end-of-life comfort care, rather than burdening the state and your care providers with extending your problematic life.
by santiago on Wed Feb 10th, 2010 at 10:55:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Human Rights - everyone has the right to life.  For a public discourse to develop in favour of pressurising individuals to go before they are ready would involve continuous and systemic breaches of human rights legislation at all levels.  The UN exists to monitor prevent such abuse by states.

Given the uproar that ensues when euthanasia or assisted suicide is debated, I don't think it is likely for the state to develop a narrative along the lines of "don't you think it's time you toddled off now, you burdensome thing?"  It would be a severe breach of human rights to put pressure on people to die.

I suppose you can argue that the state does that with severely disabled babies by removing medical care that keeps the child alive.  Perhaps withdrawal of care for elderly people would be a similar approach but they certainly couldn't actively end a life and legally get away with it.  

The process of removing care and medical attention from either elderly or terminally/chronically ill people without their consent would be challenged (I hope).

One of the problems for the UK is that these issues are hidden and taboo.  You don't talk about death. You don't openly look at the options.  You don't admit that a burden has become too much and you need out - for both the ill person and anyone who is caring for them. It is the lack of openness I think that poses more of a risk for people.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Wed Feb 10th, 2010 at 03:54:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess I don't share your optimism about the protective powers of rights-based discourse and social institutions in terminal matters of life and death (maybe I've been damaged by having read too much Foucault regarding something else I'm working on). After all, it's not as if severe, systematic breaches of human rights are really rare in modern society, or that UN has a particularly compelling record on influencing policy to mitigate human rights violations either, does it?
by santiago on Wed Feb 10th, 2010 at 04:28:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Human Rights - everyone has the right to life.  For a public discourse to develop in favour of pressurising individuals to go before they are ready would involve continuous and systemic breaches of human rights legislation at all levels.  The UN exists to monitor prevent such abuse by states.

Try to replace "life" in this case with "asylum if their country of origin is unwilling or unable to protect them against persecution."

Are you still optimistic?

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Feb 10th, 2010 at 05:32:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I know the state can and could abuse power.  But it already does within the status quo. As it is, if I wished to die but needed assistance, I'd be jeopardising another person's freedoms if they were found to have supported me.  

The arguments are very similar on both sides of the coin.  Stay alive, face abuse and indignity and not have the choice to go.  Or have the choice to go and potentially be forced into taking that option sooner rather than later.

I don't think that my wish to make the choice to go when I am ready should criminalise someone else. But whether I stay or go, there is always the potential for wrongdoing.  

How common do you think it would be for people to make such a choice? As pointed out elsewhere people can choose to refuse medical intervention.  Choosing to cut short a prolonged period of pain and ill health is just one step on from that.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 11th, 2010 at 07:00:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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