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So what to do... push for higher wages and lower taxes for the middle class, combined with infrastructure spending?

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 06:54:55 AM EST
except that there is no need for lower taxes on the middle class, just of higher (ie back to the levels of the 70s or 80s) taxes on the rich.

Some form of carbon tax on imports seems indispensable too.

In the long run, we're all dead. John Maynard Keynes

by Jerome a Paris (etg@eurotrib.com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 06:58:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]
there is no need for lower taxes on the middle class

That does depend on which nation we're talking about... ;)

Carbon tax imports seems to me like a potential boondoggle greater by a magnitude compared to the carbon trading scheme. And I think that issue will really take care of itself: in not too far away a future, Mr. Market wil punish nations and companies that are far too reliant on fossil fuels.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 07:05:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
And I might add that lower taxes have exactly the same effect on demand as higher wages.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 07:07:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Lower taxes on the rich, not.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 07:24:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
You obviously have never been in the market for a third yacht.
by Upstate NY on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 09:25:46 AM EST
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Working round to the first ;)

It's interesting that France has a strong yacht and pleasure-craft industry, and many spiffy marinas. Yet the €15bn a year in tax cuts to the wealthy handed out by Sarkozy since 2007 have had no notable stimulus effect on the economy...

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 03:19:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Some Russian company just invested a huge amount in a Finnish luxury cabin cruiser company. I guess it's an untapped market.

But any of you out there who enjoy relaxed sailing, the Finnish archipelago is THE place to go. Every summer in Finland I meet happy Dutch, French and Italian sailors who have discovered the secret.
There are thousands of pink granite Pre-Cambrian islands wallowing like hippopotamii in the Baltic waters off Åbo.

To go to an uninhabited island, scour the beaches for driftwood, light a fire and with a steel plate on legs over the fire, cook some fresh bread and sausages, is the closest I've ever come to Nirvana.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 03:36:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And not if the lower taxes lead to a higher savings rate because of lower public services.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 07:43:39 AM EST
[ Parent ]
...not for people who do not earn enough wages to actually pay income taxes.

Europeans think a hundred miles is a long way. Americans think a hundred years is a long time.
by Bernard on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 08:41:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
In Sweden everyone pays income taxes. The base rate is about 30 %, even if it has been reduced by the tax cuts of the current center-right government.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 08:50:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Who estimates a rate of return per individual (i.e. transfer payments) of this income tax (involuntary "investment" or "saving" or "spending")?

Diversity is the key to economic and political evolution.
by Cat on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 09:26:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Are there other taxes as well? Local? Property?
by Upstate NY on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 09:27:40 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The 30 % income tax is the local authority and county tax which finances schools, hospitals, child care and care for the elderly plus whatever mad projects the local pols want to waste taxpayer money on.

Add to this something like another 5 % tax above a certain income, and another 5 % on top of that. This tax goes to the central state.

Then there is a hidden tax called employers fee which is something like a third extra on top of the cumulative income taxes. It finances pensions and stuff like that IIRC.

And then there's the 25 % VAT, 30 % capital returns tax and the small property fee, the huge taxes on gasoline, tobacco, alcohol, power and so on which also finance the central government. Inheritance and wealth taxes have been abolished.

What the current government has done is essentialy increased the basic tax free income discount, which has resulted in radical income tax reductions for low and medium income earners, as a proprtion of their income tax receipt.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 11:29:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Tax rate on Y axis, monthly income on X axis. Green is income tax rates in 2006, red is 2009 without the tax cuts, blue is 2009 with the tax cuts.

One krona is 0.1 euros, so just split the incomes above by 10 to get it in euros.

The rates above is without the hidden employers fee tax, which increases the tax sum by 31.42 %.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.

by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 11:43:53 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Thanks for the info.

I just wanted to compare it to what we have in NY State.

by Upstate NY on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 12:00:39 PM EST
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Wouldn't you need an EU policy to do this?

My understanding is that capital gains can be situated in an account in any bank in Europe, and that EU citizens can move their money freely within the union. Can't I open an account in Poland if I live in France? And will my capital gains tax hit be charged in Poland?

by Upstate NY on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 09:24:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Good question! Geezers want to know.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Mar 10th, 2010 at 07:33:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That's basically up to the Poles. It took me several months to get a bank in France to agree to let me open an account, including letters from my employer, landlord, proof that the landlord owned the property (he had just bought it) and so on. It's not easy in Germany; I know a nonresident who opened an account, but he needed a German friend to vouch for him. And in the U.K. (other than Jersey) I'm told you have to convince them that  you're not a terrorist.

All this may be different if you have sums in the 7 digits or up to invest.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Thu Mar 11th, 2010 at 02:07:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]
gk:
All this may be different

Really?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Mar 11th, 2010 at 02:26:44 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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