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I agree with the consequence of massive vendor finance (i.e. Germans building BMWs, selling them to US citizens who got their money through home-equity loans which were securitized as MBS which were the basis of Lehman certificates (i.e. bonds) sold by German Sparkassen to German grandmas...). IE German Grandma gave Californian citizen money to buy the BMW in the hope to get the money paid back in the form of a 10 year bullet loan (the certificate). In the end, the Americans will own the BMW and the German Grandma will have lost her savings and everything is "fine" again...

However, what role does "Germany" (as in the German government) really play in this? Did the German government pass laws forcing Germans to build good cars and save money and not spend it all and get all indebted? No! That is what is, IMHO, missing in this whole discussion. The Chinese government greatly influences the economy, but what specifically does "Germany" do or rather what did "Germany" do? Can someone please explain??? Thanks!

by crankykarsten (cranky (where?) gmx dot organisation) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 11:22:31 AM EST
However, what role does "Germany" (as in the German government) really play in this?

Low taxes, low social transfers, stagnant wages, running a budget deficit in good times, keeping gross public debt above 60% every year since 2001.

The brainless should not be in banking -- Willem Buiter

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 11:26:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
low taxes and low social transfers? I beg to differ if I look at my paycheck.

stagnant wages - thats the unions and the employers association, NOT the government

running a budget deficit - what does that have to do with current account?

by crankykarsten (cranky (where?) gmx dot organisation) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 11:48:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Current account balance plus government budget deficit equals private sector surplus.

The brainless should not be in banking -- Willem Buiter
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 11:57:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
sorry, which way does the whole cause and effect go (if you're already simplifying very complex processes)?
by crankykarsten (cranky (where?) gmx dot organisation) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 12:00:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]
if you're already simplifying very complex processes

I'm just considering macroeconomic aggregates. You're the one who turned the macroeconomic aggregates into a presumably easier to understand metaphor about German grannies lending Californias the money to buy BMWs.

The brainless should not be in banking -- Willem Buiter

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 12:07:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ok, sorry, you win :-) Still, I think the cause and effect (ie the process) needs to be looked at, not just the static end-product...
by crankykarsten (cranky (where?) gmx dot organisation) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 12:15:02 PM EST
[ Parent ]
crankykarsten
which way does the whole cause and effect go

See this and thisthis comment on ET and/or thisthis and thisthis linked articles by Robert Parenteau and Yves Smith.


As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 02:15:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think you'd agree your personal salary is anecdotal?

But:

From DIW (German Economic Institute) Weekly Report, October 2009 (pdf), "Real Wages in Germany: Numerous Years of Decline".

The line that the government has nothing to do with this, that it's just the unions and bosses, is the line being pushed right now by the German government. Yet there is no doubt that wage "restraint" is part of a deliberate policy beginning in the early '00s under Schröder. One of the obvious ways a government can create an economic environment in which unions are weakened in pay negotiations is to reduce social security safety nets (unemployment benefits, etc), so that workers are willing to accept tougher conditions rather than lose their jobs, and this is the series of programmes associated with the name Hartz.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 12:00:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The line that the government has nothing to do with this, that it's just the unions and bosses, is the line being pushed right now by the German government. Yet there is no doubt that wage "restraint" is part of a deliberate policy beginning in the early '00s under Schröder.

In addition, the German social model has traditionally involved a political consensus involving the employers, unions and the government. To deny that now is disingenuous or market-worshipping ignorance.

The brainless should not be in banking -- Willem Buiter

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 12:03:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm afraid I don't fully understand the graph, but I would say the gross wages went upt from 1991-2007, but net wages barely moved, therefore underpinning my point that taxes and social transfers (from income from emplyoment!) actually increased!
by crankykarsten (cranky (where?) gmx dot organisation) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 12:07:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm afraid I don't fully understand the graph

Try this: real wages (whether gross or net or 'total compensation') peaked in 2003, so they have not kept up with GDP growth.

The brainless should not be in banking -- Willem Buiter

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 12:12:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Forget about the US in connection with Germany. Half of Germany's exports are to the rest of the EU. There, Germany benefits from the single market, can use Euro membership to effectively keep their currency undervalued with respect to what the DM would have done had it not been for the Euro. In addition, German capital enjoyed access to new markets where they could buy assets cheaply when the EU expanded in 2004, while at the same time claiming that the had an economic crisis going on at home and they could not allow the Eastern Europeans to work in Germany after 2006 (this was at the peak of the business cycle!).  

The brainless should not be in banking -- Willem Buiter
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 11:47:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:
Half of Germany's exports are to the rest of the EU

Two-thirds.

43-44% to the Eurozone.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 11:53:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The last third is the most important one.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Fri Mar 19th, 2010 at 07:38:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Because the rest of the world can indefinitely absorb the exports of mercantilist countries? That's what this thread is about.
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Mar 19th, 2010 at 05:18:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What is the point of Mecantilism? To own your trading partners or to pwn them?

The brainless should not be in banking -- Willem Buiter
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Sun Mar 21st, 2010 at 06:42:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ok with your remark that taking away the others option to devalue by introducing the EUR. That's true. However, why did other countries always have to devalue against the DM?

German capital was able to move just like any other capital. And I would assume that the capital in another country could possible be positive for that country current account.

Eastern Europeans working in Germany. OK, there were some restrictions but a LOT of stuff on the construction market (housing, streets) is done on the black market. What the net effect of that is, I don't know...

by crankykarsten (cranky (where?) gmx dot organisation) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 11:53:59 AM EST
[ Parent ]
However, why did other countries always have to devalue against the DM?

Because German monetary policy has a deflationary bias, and because German industrial policy is export-driven.

The brainless should not be in banking -- Willem Buiter

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 11:59:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
what German industrial policy ?
by crankykarsten (cranky (where?) gmx dot organisation) on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 12:09:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Increasing competitiveness of German industries is hardly that novel a policy goal.
Add to that pressure on the low-wage sector and VAT increases that both decrease domestic purchasing power and of course imports and you end up with unsustainable large trade surpluses.

Wait this is important. Someone is wrong on the Internet.
by generic on Thu Mar 18th, 2010 at 12:47:24 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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