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"how much do current US-EU relations have to do with the spread of Reagan-Thatcher-Bush economics over the past 30 years in EU countries"  (and the US)?

That is another ugly reality which Obama appears unwilling to confront.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Jul 17th, 2010 at 11:40:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
From what we can tell so far over here in the US, unregulated free market Reagan-Friedman capitalism has taken us to where we are today: recession. Clinton was able to bypass this period through reasonable taxes on capital gains/dividends and was able to build a surplus, even though it never began to chip away at the national debt.

But then Bush-Cheney came on the scene with tax relief for the wealthy, a lowering of the capital gains/dividend tax to 15%, on the belief that the deficits which it caused, doesn't matter. Wealth and income inequality of course increased even more. In 2000, an NYU study showed that the top 10% of families in the US owned 85% of the stock market and 90% of all business assets. As a right wing pro-wealth free-market Republican, Bush knew what he was doing.

by shergald on Sat Jul 17th, 2010 at 11:59:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Chipping away at the national debt" is only appropriate during boom times. During downturns the government must spend as the private sector is usually not spending. But the real problem we need to confront is wealth disparity and underinvestment in public infrastructure. Letting the Bush tax cuts expire will, at a minimum, help to reduce rate at which disparity is increasing, if it occurs.

At present most of the money being spent by the US Government is either going to the military or to the financial sectors, both of which are black holes for wealth. Staving off financial collapse via current means only increased wealth disparity. In response to crisis the US is squandering its resources by incurring ever increasing debt for socially harmful purposes.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Jul 17th, 2010 at 01:14:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Looking back to FDR, who faced the same condition of high unemployment for years, it did occur to some that a CCC type program might tick a point off the current unemployment rate. At a minimum, the unemployment benefit must be extended.

by shergald on Sat Jul 17th, 2010 at 02:00:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Clinton was able to bypass this period through reasonable taxes on capital gains/dividends and was able to build a surplus, even though it never began to chip away at the national debt.

The thousand pound gorilla in that room is the current accounts deficit, though. Because it means that the sovereign surplus during the Clinton years was essentially made up of fake money - Clinton restored the sovereign cash flow to surplus, but he did nothing to confront the structural trade deficit, which meant that the sovereign surplus could only continue as long as the private sector ran a net deficit. That is, as long as asset prices increased fast enough to cover the increased borrowing to finance the private sector's deficit spending. Which, translated from econospeak to English, means only as long as the bubble was still inflating.

Now, don't get me wrong - the phony wealth was generated in the private sector, and it was entirely appropriate of Clinton to make sure that as much of that phony wealth as possible went towards reducing the sovereign's obligations to bondholders. But to look only at the Clinton-era sovereign surpluses is to miss the real story of the US economy in the '90s. And on the underlying issue of structural import dependency and de-industrialisation, Clinton barely even slowed the trend.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sat Jul 17th, 2010 at 03:03:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
It's good jujitsu to remind people that the Democrats are both good for the stock market and for reigning in deficits, while the voodoo economists cause huge deficits and sink the stock market.
by Upstate NY on Sun Jul 18th, 2010 at 11:05:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It's a good talking point, and good talking points are important. But the real story over the last 20-30 years is the de-industrialisation and the structural current accounts deficit, and there they aren't too impressive. Better than the repubs, but that's a really low bar to clear - they could be Vlad Tepes of Wallachia and they'd still beat the repubs.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Sun Jul 18th, 2010 at 11:35:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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