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An interesting point I came across in A failure of a mission by Sir Nevile Henderson - ambassador to Berlin in 1937-1939 was that as the Nazi regime was an effect of conditions imposed on Germany in the Versailles treaty (which appears to be more or less generally accepted), so would the Nazi era end if Germany in a peaceful way got the borders that should have been set in Versailles, ie the language borders. This should strengthen the none-militaristic wing of the Nazi party, remove the prime motivation for war and eventually lead Germany back to a normal condition (that did not have to be democratic).

That fact that the theory failed does not show it was a bad one to try, other then from an omniscient point-of-view.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sun Jul 18th, 2010 at 12:54:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Even if the Nazi Party largely came to power because of the impact of the Versailles Treaty, that does not mean that the Nazi Party would have fallen from power if those "injustices" had been reversed.  Indeed the Nazi Party would have claimed credit for any reversal and concluded that hanging tough with the allies is the way to achieve results.  Sometimes history simply isn't reversible even when previous mistakes have been recognised and corrected.

Indeed you could even make the converse case: that the Nazi party rose to power because Versailles wasn't sufficiently draconian or enforced to keep people like the Nazis down.

I don't subscribe to either theory. WWI was an abomination against all peoples, and virtually all national elites were almost equally to blame.  Putting the blame almost entirely on the losers certainly saved the ruling elites of the victors asses and set the scene for a rematch.

But Germany could also have responded positively to that defeat in WW1 - as it did after WW2 - admittedly largely because of a much more positive US input.  And then saving the winning ruling elites asses didn't do the UK any favours whatsoever.

But the greater problem is class war and the industrialisation process which created such savage tensions.  It seems that now - after 40 years of heeding those lessons we are back on the same old road of increased inequality and class war - leading almost inevitably the wars - now almost global in scope.

Why is it that the lessons of even a world war only seem to last for a generation  or two?

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Sun Jul 18th, 2010 at 01:11:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think the Nazi regime can be blamed on Versailles.

The initial nationalist impulse may have been triggered by Versailles, but without economic chaos - and class war, and funding by both German and US industrialists - the Nazis would have remained in the crank corner.

If anything, the Nazis were a creature of the Depression. If the US Depression hadn't kicked the legs out from under the German economy, it's unlikely they'd have been more significant than the Tea Baggers have been so far - if that.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Jul 18th, 2010 at 01:29:47 PM EST
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Clemenceau had to have his pound of flesh. No one can say "Who could have known?" Keynes laid out the consequences over the next 15 years almost as if he were writing history in The Economic Consequences of the Peace. But how things played out in actuality is very complicated and, I strongly suspect, the records of some of the most important elements, including the financial aspects, were destroyed or have yet to emerge. But the hyperinflation in the early '20s that destroyed most of the German middle class economically was clearly the result of Versailles and the subsequent French occupation of the Rhur, which paralyzed the ability of German industry to manufacture goods which could have given use and meaning to the Papiermark.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sun Jul 18th, 2010 at 04:10:58 PM EST
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