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I don't think corruption is a traditional value per se - although it has been endemic in Fianna Fail in particular.  The traditional value is one of "looking after your own" - i.e. kinship over formal administrative responsibilities and also one of defrauding the authorities - e.g. tax evasion, black economy - because for centuries the authorities were an imperial invader.

However that, too, is changing, and intolerance of theft by those in positions of power is growing.  For someone who grew up in a rural Ireland where respect for any sort of authority was marked by its absence, the change in recent years to a more compliant culture has been quite amazing.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Jul 20th, 2010 at 08:44:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
What corruption is, in many cases, is a term used to describe "traditional practices" within the framework of "liberal values".

By laying out pros and cons we risk inducing people to join the debate, and losing control of a process that only we fully understand. - Alan Greenspan
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Jul 20th, 2010 at 08:46:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I.e. the Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism" - Weber

a move from a tribal to a bureaucratic order.

But it is also more than that:
Call for end to 'cute-hoor' politics - The Irish Times - Tue, Jul 20, 2010

Fine Gael backbencher Lucinda Creighton has revived tensions within her party with a sharply-critical speech at the MacGill Summer School arising out of the presence of a Cork property developer at a fund-raising event.

Mr Michael O'Flynn is company chairman and managing director of Cork-based O'Flynn Construction, which transferred debts approaching €1billion to the National Asset Management Agency (Nama). He was recently reported as attending as sponsor of €1500 fourball at a golf fundraiser at the K Club, organised by Fine Gael.

Ms Creighton said: "There can be no room in Fine Gael for cute-hoor politics. These are the politics which have defined and tainted Irish public life like an incurable cancer.

"We cannot be satisfied with low standards in high places. Fine Gael in government must be much, much more than simply `Fianna Fáil Light'.

"We cannot, on the one hand, condemn Fianna Fáil for entertaining developers in the Galway tent, while on the other hand extend the biscuit tin for contributions from high-profile developers, who are beholden to Nama. The Irish people expect more from Fine Gael; they demand more, and they are right.

"Fine Gael cannot equivocate about the standards we wish to bring to the running of our great Republic. We need a real `New Politics'- of substance rather than sound-bites.

"We need a politics that is about serving the people of Ireland, not simply about replacing Fianna Fáil.

"It is time for a politics built on courage, integrity and truth. That is the politics which I signed up for and the sort of public service which the Irish people so desperately need and so badly deserve," she said.

Michael O'Flynn has committed no crime and for all I know was a bona fide developer who got in over his head when times were good.  His business went bust.  It happens.  What Lucinda Creighton - one of a new generation of quite articulate if conservative politicians appears to be saying is that Fine Gael shouldn't associate with people like that because developers have traditionally congregated around Fianna Fail and influenced Fianna Fail policies favouring speculative building and banking practices.

What galls most people is that Michael O'Flynn is probably still quite wealthy personally even as the taxpayer has been forced to take on a Billion of his dodgy debts.  Its the privatisation of social gains - increase land values due to rezoning or state infrastructure development - and the socialisation of the losses of people like Michael O'Flynn that people object to.

The whole basis of limited liability, contract law, and the right of private banks to play key roles in the public infrastructure of the state which is being called into question.  In this context it IS the liberal values of capitalism which are seen to be the corruption of the more traditional moral order where your word was your bond and your liabilities were personal.

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Jul 20th, 2010 at 08:57:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
"Corruption is a traditional value" is a far superior rhetorical or polemical formulation of the concept. It will force those who hold tradition paramount to reconsider their toleration of that particular "old way". Were I Doyle I would use that phrase or "It appears that corruption is also a traditional value" as the summary line of an indictment of Fianna Fail in a political campaign. Could be the salvation of the Greens and the death of Fianna Fail. Else, the coalition will likely be the death of the Greens.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 20th, 2010 at 10:08:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Greens were supposedly there to bring some ethical oversight to the Government.  They have been bought off and are already effectively politically dead for the foreseeable future.  Boyle doesn't have to engage in that rhetoric.  Everyone knows the reality - although many have tolerated it for far too long because they gained from it or because they couldn't see what harm was caused to the common good by it.  Everyone can see the harm now.

Index of Frank's Diaries
by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Jul 20th, 2010 at 11:03:04 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How many Greens would have to defect to bring down the government?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Jul 20th, 2010 at 11:44:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The Irish Green Party only has 6 seats but the Government also has a number of ex-Fianna Fail and other independents it can usually rely on.  In practice, it would take the Greens not supporting a critical vote like the December budget vote whioch no one else will want to support to bring the Government down.

That is what Boyle is alluding to - the fact that there is no political will for the further 3 Billion in Govt. spending cutbacks which are expected to be required to meet budgetary requirements and foreign "investor sentiment".

But as of now the Greens are fully tied in and will lose whatever they do - support unpopular cutbacks or be seen to have no bottle and cut and run.  The principle of the cutbacks has already been agreed.  The question to be decide is where they will fall.  If the greens get their carbon taxes, water charges, recycling charges, and token taxes on bankers etc. they will probably continue to cave...

Index of Frank's Diaries

by Frank Schnittger (mail Frankschnittger at hot dotty communists) on Tue Jul 20th, 2010 at 12:06:27 PM EST
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