This argument also assumes there is no Connie Mae institution financing the capitalized savings of energy saving capital spending at subsidized terms (where it may be noted that this financial subsidy could easily be provided by a portion of a carbon fee while still recycling a majority of carbon fee payments as social dividend).


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.

Remember, using resistance heaters with clean power is better than having a gas furnace, despite being an insanely wasteful use of electricity, and not everyone can use heat pumps.

In a (part-)nuclear grid, central heating can obviate this requirement.

For that matter, there is no good reason why we have to replace all current uses of fossil fuels with electricity: Heating requirements can be wholly obviated via appropriate architecture, even in Northern Finland in the winter; the need for transportation can be greatly abridged with improved city planning and settlement patterns; shipping can, for all non-perishable commodities, be powered by sail. The only major uses of fossil fuels I can think of off-hand are air travel (which will need to be replaced by trains and ships), industrial heat sources like furnaces and electricity generation for existing electricity demand.

This will kill the suburbs and radically alter the rural areas, of course. But our way of life is negotiable - the laws of physics are not.

- Jake

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

I don't think anyone foresees a wind-only renewables future. Other renewables have to mature.

It might be possible with nuclear and pumped storage

With pumped storage, anything is possible.

Question: do you mean only or mostly pumped hydro? If yes, have you ever calculated what the capacity needs of all of the EU translate to in physical parameters?

_{*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.}

A europe wide grid linking wind would still have large variations in output not linked in any way with demand swings.

And of course, a europe wide grid linking wind would also be a europe wide grid crossing multiple time zones spreading peaks in CSP power availability.

Putting individual sustainable production technologies in 20th century silos will always make the challenges look harder than pooling them into a diverse portfolio.


I've been accused of being a Marxist, yet while Harpo's my favourite, it's Groucho I'm always quoting. Odd, that.