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From the part of the second reading debate I saw, on the Parliament channel,the opposition threw up a lot of dubious (and sometimes contradictory arguments) in what seemed an exercise in cynically claiming to be motivated by principle rather than the defence of unjustified privilege and self interest.

For example Peter Hain complained that the maximum geographical size rule would lead to three smaller than average electorate seats in the Scottish Highlands. In another part of the speech Hain complained that depriving Wales of its existing over-representation would lead to two large area seats being created in mid Wales.

I expect the bill to get through without too much difficulty. Coalition backbenchers may be unhappy with some details, but not to the point of endangering the bill. The opposition on is own will not be able to delay, as the bill is timetabled.

The Liberal Democrats want the referendum, the Conservatives want constituency reform. They both have strong political reasons to ensure the bill is enacted. Labour does not have the numbers, in either House, to cause serious delay or force major changes.

by Gary J on Tue Sep 7th, 2010 at 04:30:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I wouldnt say that those arguments are particularly contradictory, they are both problems

For example Peter Hain complained that the maximum geographical size rule would lead to three smaller than average electorate seats in the Scottish Highlands.

This for one would cause over-representation of Scottish Nationalists at Westminster

In another part of the speech Hain complained that depriving Wales of its existing over-representation would lead to two large area seats being created in mid Wales.

Whereas in this I can speak of from practical experience, these constituencies would be intensely rural. and with the poor transport links that are only going to get worse with the current round of cuts face to face contact with the MP becomes very difficult. Depending on the final boundaries, it may be that there no direct bus links to parts of the constituency, especially on the weekends when MPs surgeries are held.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.

by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Sep 7th, 2010 at 06:32:15 AM EST
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I would say the contradiction is that Hain was criticising both large geographical and smaller electorate seats in Scotland as well as large geographical and standard electorate seats in Wales. A consistent approach would require a choice of supporting one or the other.

My suspicion is that the Scottish Boundary Commission will actually be able to construct an electoral map which produces seats which fall within both the standard geographical and electorate criteria. It will probably mean seats with most of the population outside the Highlands and most of the area consisting of sparsely populated Highland territory. However it is in the interests of opponents of the bill to exaggerate the problem.

I accept that there are geographical problems in areas like the Highlands and Snowdonia. However are we really saying the difficulties are so bad that those areas should be special cases? After all the MPs in northern Canada manage to represent areas which are both much larger and far more difficult to get around, than are Scotland and Wales.

If I had been designing the legislation I would have asked "what are we representing?" The primary answer is obviously registered electors, not square miles of countryside. I would not have made the Scottish islands or very large (by UK standards) constituencies into special cases. I would have said the only criteria is that each seat, within a part of the UK, should have pretty much the same registered electorate.

My approach would mean that a few seats would be difficult for the candidates, but we could perhaps get around that by allowing a higher spending limit than in other areas.

by Gary J on Tue Sep 7th, 2010 at 08:23:19 AM EST
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oh no, its not just Snowdonia, the vast majority of Wales population is concentrated along the southern and northern coasts, so the whole centre of the country is facing this problem. It may well be that Canadian MP's can effectively represent their constituents, but should we really be acting to give the rural poor less access to  their representation?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Sep 7th, 2010 at 08:43:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am starting from the point of view that one person, one vote, one value is a core principle of democratic government. That implies roughly equal numbers of voters in each constituency.

The major purpose of electing an MP is not to provide advice surgeries for constituents. It is to represent the constituents in Parliament. It is, at least in theory, the job of the MP to exercise his or her own judgement on issues which come before Parliament, not merely to ascertain the opinions of voters and then defer to them. The voters can decide what they think of the representatives choices, at the next election.

If we take the view that some very rural constituencies need to be smaller, to make it easier to provide effective advice surgeries, we are giving the votes of the electors in those areas a higher value than those in the rest of the country. There would also be calls for inner city seats to be smaller than average, because the MPs for those areas have a higher than average caseload.

It is unfortunate that the coalition has already sold out on democratic principle, to a certain extent, by allowing two island groups and 12,000-13,000 square mile large seats to be exceptions. We should not expand the special cases any further, because the more we do that the further we depart from one person, one vote, one value.

by Gary J on Tue Sep 7th, 2010 at 11:01:26 AM EST
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In what way as well do you mean "Higher spending limit"?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Sep 7th, 2010 at 08:44:22 AM EST
[ Parent ]
At the moment the permitted spending limit for parliamentary candidates is a bit larger for county constituencies than for borough seats. I presume the rationale for that is because the cost of travelling around larger areas is greater.

My suggestion was that large seats, with challenging geography, might have a still larger expenses allowance. Thus a candidate might hire a helicopter, to campaign in different parts of the seat without wasting too much time travelling.

by Gary J on Tue Sep 7th, 2010 at 10:37:57 AM EST
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well thats fine for campaign time, but campaigning is a very small part of an MP's job. How about the regular weekly trips back to the constituency that they almost all make (The expenses scandal has made it harder for honest politicians  to support their constituents in this way)

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Sep 7th, 2010 at 12:38:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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