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Let's have a scientific Olympiad as well as one devoted to the arts | Henry Porter | Comment is free | The Observer

The prospect of the Cultural Olympiad accompanying the London Olympics in two years' time fills me with an unreasonable sense of dread. The official website says it will be "a 12-week cultural celebration across the whole of the UK. At the heart of the festival will be a programme of commissions by some of the finest artists in the world in events ranging from pop to film, from visual arts and fashion to theatre, from circus to carnival, from opera to digital innovation".

There's nothing wrong with any of that, yet at the back of my mind is the global embarrassment of the dome and the utter emptiness of its endeavour, together with the mild resentment - no doubt a hangover from school open days - at having to put on a good show for visitors. Don't get me wrong, I like the arts and I am as patriotic as the next person, if awkwardly so. It's just that I know that the commissars of culture who are planning these events fail to understand what is truly interesting and original about Britain.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 12:08:36 PM EST
for the celebration of British scientific culture it'd have to be run by James May and Dick Strawbridge.

for the non-Brits here, these are both presenters with a schtick for being blokes with spanners who make things

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 12:16:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Blokes with spanners" is the Scientific equivalent of big eyed children painted on black velvet.

(LOL)

He's getting long in the tooth now but what about James Burke instead?

by ATinNM on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 01:04:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We use Brian Cox as general purpose science explainer nowadays.

but the other two have an appeal that lifts it out of the geek zone

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 01:14:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Good grief. James Burke, possibly a spry, yet mellowed 74 year old today, sometimes reached such heights of pretension in his lightweight Italian suits that you wanted someone to walk over and slap him "Get a grip, Jimmy!"

But he did have some useful insights that could be understand by a large section of all viewers, and the series were well shot with a lot of production value. However, they would look odd if you could see them today. <ignores protestations from ATinNM that he's still happily watching reruns on KNMD, out there in the desert>

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 01:37:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Saw one a few weeks ago, strange to see how disappointingly dated it seemed

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 02:08:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
HA!

I don't have to watch re-runs because I own the series.  So there, :-þ nyah-nyah neener-neener.

Of course they look dated and of course the Gosh-Wow is So-What and We Know More Now and all the rest of it ... Connections was shot in the mid-70s  fer crying out loud.  

I don't know his intention.  Overtly the series was about change not science ... 'tho the viewer learned a bit about science along the way.

by ATinNM on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 02:46:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
In fact he made a later series called "The Day the Universe Changed" which was excellent (despite the jokey, punning style - as he said it was for BBC1, Clark's Civilisation was for the more elitist BBC2). It had an almost marxist approach, with some focus on basic economic developments and (as with Connections) connecting very diverse aspects of society in a style quite unlike so much academic, specialised history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtWVfTiQQW8

The title relates to the idea of paradigm shift.  

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 03:50:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I enjoyed The Day the Universe Changed when it ran.  It never made it here in the states to the same extent his first series did and, so, is not often re-run.  

His Knowledge Web

The Knowledge Web counters the tendency of modern education to encourage specialized learning and thinking. With formal education today, learners may study either history or physics, or perhaps only Renaissance history and astrophysics," says James. "People tend to become experts in highly specialized fields, learning more and more about less and less.

is an interesting effort.  No idea how successful it has been.

by ATinNM on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 04:14:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
While I sympathize, this kind of thing:

I have a passion for four magazines which I subscribe to - Nature, New Scientist, Science and Scientific American - and it seems to me that the breakthroughs they report are not only underappreciated but also say much more about us and the universe than the arts ever could.

isn't helpful.

by ATinNM on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 12:47:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Like most scientists he doesn't get what the humanities do, or what they're for - and he certainly doesn't get that in terms of political influence and persuasive power the humanities can kick science's ass all the way to Pluto and back.

I'm not saying this is a good thing, but 'Hey, it's science, therefore it's important' is so not how most people's understanding of reality works now.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 01:54:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The humanities may have more political clout and some of their products might go above the head of a natural scientist rather than be inconsequent balderash, but, they still just represent humanity's collective autism and don't deal with the wider world.

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 02:22:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You've just proved my point. If you're trying to get people to do things for you, the real world matters much less than scientists and engineers think it does.

At least until it falls apart on you. But by then it's too late.

The fact that the science community has failed to understand this and believes that all it has to do is present facts and people will do the right thing is literally its biggest failure of insight since the Enlightenment.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 02:34:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What am I supposed to get people to do for me?...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 02:54:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
HSR, renewable energy, expanded mass transit systems...

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 04:22:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Exactly.

Generally, stuff that works and lasts, rather than stuff that can't and doesn't.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 07:03:35 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well duh. And what please does that have to do with a critical observation about how much art resp. science says about the world?

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Aug 30th, 2010 at 12:17:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not in the comment upthread...

*Lunatic*, n.
One whose delusions are out of fashion.
by DoDo on Mon Aug 30th, 2010 at 12:18:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
The fact that the science community has failed to understand this and believes that all it has to do is present facts and people will do the right thing

I don't think you're talking about scientists or the "science community" much there...

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 03:30:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I think rather too many scientists see science as something virtuously separate from politics, except in narrow permitted bounds - i.e. not offered except when asked.

New Scientist had an interview with Phil Jones of Climategate recently and he said that he was very surprised by it all because he'd tried to keep it all completely apolitical.

As if the biggest policy issue in history, with literally trillions of profits in non-renewables at stake, was ever going to be left to disinterested research.

Scientists have spent their time chasing after homoeopaths and astrologers because of 'fraud' while economists have blown up the economy, slashed academic spending on research, closed departments, forced PhDs who could be doing useful research into jobs in finance, or put them on the dole.

Unfortunately just because someone isn't interested in politics, doesn't mean politics isn't interested in them.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 07:15:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"The fact that the science community has failed to understand this and believes that all it has to do is present facts and people will do the right thing is literally its biggest failure of insight since the Enlightenment."

Yawn - "it"s all about narrative" yet again - and yet another unsupported generalisation about a whole "community" - a rather diverse and argumentative one, and about the whole period since the Enlightenment - which actually did much to spread scientific ideas to a wider public - a tradition continued today - see earlier reply.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 04:33:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
"Like most scientists he doesn't get what the humanities do, or what they're for"

Probably most scientists, wisely, wouldn't come up with generalisations like this. But it works both ways and is a reflection of the UK's very early specialisation, rather than something characteristic of scientists in general.


There is a great tradition in Britain of popularising science. Charles Darwin himself was a popular science writer, for what else was On the Origin of Species but a summary in plain English of the evidence for the theory of evolution by natural selection? In the 20th century, there has been a tradition at Cambridge of science popularisers, with Arthur Eddington, James Jeans and Fred Hoyle all disseminating the biggest cosmic ideas to the general public. Hoyle even coined the term "Big Bang"during a 1949 BBC radio broadcast.

And the genre remains healthy, with the big writers including Richard Dawkins, most famous for The Selfish Gene, Simon Singh for Fermat's Last Theorem and Matt Ridley for Genome. This month came the news that Graham Farmelo won the Costa Biography Award for The Strangest Man, his brilliant biography of the Spock-like physicist Paul Dirac.

Independent

"in terms of political influence and persuasive power the humanities can kick science's ass all the way to Pluto and back."

Oh really, any evidence for this ? Or do you just mean that few politicians studied science ? But in relation to the formation of policy today I think the humanities as such (as opposed to political considerations) have little effect in contrast to the sciences, e.g. the NHS, agriculture, etc. - even though the sciences are too often neglected (again for political reasons).  

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.

by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 04:27:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Hows this for a union of Technology and Art?

by ATinNM on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 03:00:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Humph - an artist would have had flame adjusting to frequency.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 03:57:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
An artist would have had little idea of how to achieve this - and the complexity of ideas in most of what passes for "Art" these days hardly rises above primary school level.

Maybe it's because I'm a Londoner - that I moved to Nice.
by Ted Welch (tedwelch-at-mac-dot-com) on Sun Aug 29th, 2010 at 04:35:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Science, Reason and Critical Thinking: Modern Science Map
500 Years of Science, Reason & Critical Thinking via the medium of gross over simplification, dodgy demarcation, glaring omission and a very tiny font.

The map of modern science was created to celebrate the achievements of the scientific method through the age of reason, the enlightenment and modernity. It therefore builds upon, but fails list, the origins of many scientific disciplines such as maths and astronomy that have their origins in the ancient world.


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 30th, 2010 at 07:30:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Wondering when I was going to jump into this discussion. Let's start here.

... the origins of many scientific disciplines such as maths and astronomy ...

Math and astronomy are NOT sciences. Question: What is a science?  Choose any area of investigation; you have independent and dependent variables. The investigator controls the levels of the independent variables. He then measures the responses of the system, i.e. the dependent variables. This is the essence of "controlled experiments".  In math and astronomy you CANNOT conduct controlled experiments, therefore, they are NOT sciences.

And don't forget to randomize you sorry bastards.

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Aug 30th, 2010 at 07:42:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So if I punch you on the nose to investigate whether a dependent variable called pain appears, and I use several punches of different strengths called independent variables in a controlled experiment to see what level of pain will cause you to shut up - I am a scientist ;-)

And I shall then pin a card to your chest saying:

Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is, in its broadest sense, any systematic knowledge that is capable of resulting in a correct prediction or reliable outcome. In this sense, science may refer to a highly skilled technique, technology, or practice.


You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Mon Aug 30th, 2010 at 08:07:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Should I correct you or just let this pass?  So many errors.

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.
by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Aug 30th, 2010 at 08:13:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
... science may refer to a highly skilled technique, technology, or practice.

So I'm doing science when I'm watching cyberporn and playing with my pud ... "a highly skilled technique"?

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Aug 30th, 2010 at 08:22:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Xenobiology?
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Mon Aug 30th, 2010 at 08:57:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If you go to Wiki and look up xenobiology you are directed to astrobiology:

Astrobiology is the study of the origin, evolution, distribution, and future of life in the universe.

Well that explains everything, at least, all my jacking off. I knew I wasn't just enjoying myself, that there was "a higher purpose".

In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Aug 30th, 2010 at 09:20:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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