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Britain, France 'plan defence pact' | UK news | guardian.co.uk

Britain and France could share their aircraft carrier capability in a dramatic co-operation pact designed to maintain military power while cutting costs, it has been reported.

The Ministry of Defence described the report in The Times as "speculation" ahead of the outcome of the Strategic Defence and Security Review, expected next month.

But a source said that ideas for all sorts of co-operation would be "on the table" when Defence Secretary Liam Fox visited Paris for talks with his French counterparts on Friday, and did not exclude the possibility of the aircraft carriers being discussed.



Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Mon Aug 30th, 2010 at 07:54:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Britain, France 'plan defence pact'

Against whom ... Berlu ? ... the US ?  


In the end, might makes right. Nothing has changed since the caveman.

by THE Twank (yatta blah blah @ blah.com) on Mon Aug 30th, 2010 at 09:35:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Icelandic fishing fleets?

The fact is that what we're experiencing right now is a top-down disaster. -Paul Krugman
by dvx (dvx.clt ät gmail dotcom) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:00:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The thing here is that the UK was to build two big new carriers, and the French would take the third ship of the class. Then after a while the French figured out that it might be a bit unwise to build a capital ship with a lifespan of 50+ years with conventional propulsion, and opted for nuclear. This meant they cancelled their participation in the British program. Meanwhile the Brits figured out that due to the massive cost overruns on the F-35 program, they could afford either aircraft carriers or the planes the carriers were supposed to carry. So the smart money is currently on the UK cancelling the F-35 orders and instead ordering new stealthier F-18 Super Hornets. That would cut the aircraft cost from £14 billion to £4 billion.

Peak oil is not an energy crisis. It is a liquid fuel crisis.
by Starvid (arvid.hallen at gmail.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 03:03:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I was wondering if this happened if the British would go for French aircraft?

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 07:12:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
They could always buy that hunk of junk the Swedes are flogging.

:-)

by ATinNM on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 10:40:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It IS quite loud for Swedish. The only other Swedish product of similar volume is the sort of Abba/golf-inspired clothes worn by tanned suave Swedish chat celebrities.

I have seen a pink cotton jacket combined with 'tartan' trousers of yellow and lime-green. Watching TV in Sweden is sometimes like entering the world of a music video for Buck's Fizz on prozac. Degendered hallucinogenic pastels.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:05:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
haha, i agree. i believe that too many grey skies take away the power to 'live' colours, and leave insipid, or the other extreme you so well describe, as taste choices.

so many germans wearing beige polyester, the british proclivity for muddy (i don't exist) or overbright, ( i'm lurid, so i must exist) being prime examples.

by not seeing how nature combines raw, sunlit, extreme colours daily, one's eyes become attuned to the bland, and the lurches to compensate achieve the level of truly grotesque.

africans love to combine madly, patterns and colours cheerfully colliding in merry lowbrow chaos, but there's a loose coherence, same as their musics' polyrhythms.

india already more formalised, refined...

small rainy islands like japan and england have the most rigid dress codes...weird!

riddle me that ;)

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:23:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I've always been amazed by the grace and harmony of African ensemble dress, which has the power of collage.

While dress codes in Japan may be strict, historically, Japanese woven textiles are the most striking beautiful on the planet, imo.

And let us not forget that the wonderful classic Hawaiian shirt was originally made from cottons imported to the islands from Japan.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:53:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Sven Triloqvist:
Japanese woven textiles are the most striking beautiful on the planet, imo.

ever felt tibetan silk? i thought the original hawaaian shirts were in (sustainable!) rayon, from tree fibres, iirc. and yes they were/are wonderfully classic. i used to comb the sally ally shops on the big island in the 70's/80's and found some beauties, which have lasted amazingly, some of extremely fine cotton, which probably did come from japan. those blue and white japanese bathrobes are made of similarly soft, fine cotton too.

egyptian cotton is very highly rated, i had a shirt of it once and it was special...

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 01:33:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The 'Jokapoika' (everyboy) shirts by Marimekko were made of Egyptian cotton and they last and last. I still have an antique one from '66 that still gets an airing after a million (citation needed) washes.

The Jokapoika shirt (in grey or black) is de rigeur for Leftish Finnish intellectuals and patriotic architects.

In the early days the textiles were hand screen-printed, cut and sewn in Finland from imported Egyptian cotton.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 02:15:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We need to return to the classic dress, hallowed by time:

by ATinNM on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:28:38 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Are you proposing an ET dress code?

At least, in the explanation of it, one could perhaps proselytize some waverers. And it would suit the limeys too.

Imagine an ET meet in Paris, with Our Dear Kermit.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:46:06 AM EST
[ Parent ]
An ET meet with everybody dressed like that?

Hi-class.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 12:03:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There have been less shameful methods of getting attention, but in my business such craziness would ensure media attention.

There is only one single question: does the method of getting attention in any way dilute the message to which attention is being drawn, when compared to inattention?

In the advanced media 'game' there are typically 3 vectors that have to coincide: 1) the message is difficult, but useful (beneficial if understood). 2) The testimonials of supporters must be clear cut, and 3) It would be fun to join.

Number 3 is vital, although fun can be understood in many different ways - of which the most important is "if I join in, will I be happier at some point in the future".

Facts are not enough - though they help ;-)

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 12:19:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sven Triloqvist:
There is only one single question: does the method of getting attention in any way dilute the message to which attention is being drawn, when compared to inattention?

is there rehab for that? so bad it's great dept... that green...rancidly present, like having unripe grapefruit peel rubbed into your eyeballs!

ow ow ow make it stop

must go out and watch a sunset after that, staggers away blinded and streaming lymph from every orifice...

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 01:52:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
These are questions that I confront every day. Is it any wonder I sometimes make no sense?

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 02:18:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
We might want to have a discussion about it.

As you are well aware first impressions are very difficult to change and, concurrently, establish the basis of future interactions and the psychological assessment of how "serious" a person is.  How one dresses is the single most important social signal.

Proper attire

would, I think, go some way to establishing Eurotrib's bona fides to the Serious People™.

by ATinNM on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 12:10:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't want to impose my American style and clothing sense on the ET community.  Other countries have different mechanisms for signaling and, so, if you wish to project your Finnishness

I think that would be entirely appropriate.

by ATinNM on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 12:15:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]
'Dark Floors' vanished without trace - happily - even though it was screenplayed by a friend of mine.

What Pekka did not understand is that Lordi existed only the interstices between audience, media, patriotism and national self-consciousness, and that upsetting THAT fragile ecosystem was doomed to failure.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 12:30:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But I think I should point out (citation = moptops) that paradigm fashion shifts accompany all other human shifts. Harbingers, no less.

The only question is: can fashion paradigm shifts precipitate?

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 12:23:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Fashion can precipitate

as the old adage noted, "Red sky at morning, tailors take warning."

by ATinNM on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 01:39:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Excellente!

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 01:48:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]
um, AT, your sig is really right on this one!

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~
by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 1st, 2010 at 01:54:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The UK is building 2 Queen Elizabeth class aircraft carriers so they aren't dependent on finding a spot of ground for an airfield.  But they don't have the extra 152 strike and air defense aircraft, other fixed wing aircraft, and helicopters to give them teeth floating around and there's no money in the kitty to be able to build them.
by ATinNM on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 10:35:17 AM EST
[ Parent ]
(Note to self:  read the sub-thread then comment.)
by ATinNM on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 10:36:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That's typical of me...

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Tue Aug 31st, 2010 at 11:06:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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