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That's now how I recall the history of the world wars.  America didn't remain neutral.  America has its empire today because it militarily conquered its enemies -- Italy, Japan, and Germany, the technological and cultural superpower of the time, and it diplomatically conquered its rivals, England and France.  That is, American won its empire the old fashioned way -- the most violent use of deadly force in world history.  The Axis powers were at least as great a threat to America as Carthage, Egypt, and the Celts were to Rome.
by santiago on Tue Sep 14th, 2010 at 07:01:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
[That's NOT how I recall ...]
by santiago on Tue Sep 14th, 2010 at 07:01:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
By the time the US entered the European theatre in any material capacity, the war was all over bar the shouting. The actual wars were between Russia and Germany in Europe and China and Japan in Asia - the rest was a sideshow. One telling statistic in this respect is that the losses (on both sides) of the amphibious landing in Normandy - one of the iconic American successes in that war - were slightly below the ordinary daily losses in the East, nevermind heavy fighting.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Tue Sep 14th, 2010 at 08:04:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, the US funded and sponsored WWII - or elements on Wall St did.

It's tempting to wonder if there was a genius-level Machiavellian plan to destabilise Germany and neuter the UK by sponsoring a self-destructive psychotic lunatic, leaving a hegemonic gap to be filled.

I suppose it's possible, but there's little evidence that US diplomacy is that sophisticated.

And had the UK lost the Battle of Britain and been invaded, the US would almost certainly had sued for peace with Hitler.

As it was, the most valuable payload left over from the Nazis was a bus full of rocket scientists and the odd psychotic quack, all of whom were collected during Operation Paperclip.  

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Tue Sep 14th, 2010 at 09:16:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]
That might be misleading. The USA was important for supplying war material via Lend-Lease, which began in March 1941 and benefited China, Russia and the UK. From 1942 forward the US growing presence in the UK and their activities in North Africa and Italy complicated things for the Axis Powers. Germany was unable to totally concentrate on Russia. While it is true that Hitler had badly bungled Barbarossa, had he not had to be concerned with Africa, Italy and a possible invasion from the UK and had the UK not had the support of the USA things might have turned out more favorable to Nazi Germany. A negotiated peace might have been the result, with Germany being the hegemon in Western Europe. Certainly Germany would have had better access to the Ploieşt oil facilities, which had been important for Barbarossa, than it had after US bombing efforts out of N. Africa in 1943.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Sep 14th, 2010 at 09:21:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Germany had at no point more than five million troops deployed to the West Front, including North Africa. They lost between four and ten million on the East Front, depending on whether you count PoWs and whether you count support troops from their clients.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Sep 15th, 2010 at 05:03:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Agreed. And Russia had lost a million men a month during significant parts of WWI. The Soviet Union really won WW II. This would not have happened had not Stalin moved the arms manufacturing industries east of the Urals in the '30s. Even so, what would have happened had Hitler not been so mad and had he more appropriately equipped and provisioned his troops for the Russian campaign is hard to say, especially had the threat of action on the Western Front by the USA not existed.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Sep 15th, 2010 at 11:10:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If Hitler hadn't been crazy, he wouldn't have invaded Russia in the first place. He'd have called it over after the invasion of France and sued for peace, demanding recognition of the German conquests in Central Europe, a return of the Rhineland and maybe a couple of particularly symbolic colonies. Give or take a demilitarised zone on the French border and in the Low Countries.

Would probably have gotten it too, assuming that he'd sued for peace before terror-bombing London.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Sep 15th, 2010 at 02:39:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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