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But events of equal importance to the society of the time have always happened. Perhaps more slowly measured against a single lifetime.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 3rd, 2010 at 07:31:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But not evenly or equally, I don't think. As a rough example, take the century between 1560 and 1660 for English society, culture, and politics, and most of the eighteenth century that seems to have been much quieter (despite what historians have since labelled Teh Agricultural Revolution, Industrial Revolution, Enlightenment).
by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 3rd, 2010 at 07:56:52 AM EST
[ Parent ]
True. I haven't yet unpacked my history timeline books, but momentous and not-so-momentous events seem to have happened throughout history. The significance of events to a society at the time is harder to judge.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 3rd, 2010 at 08:13:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I don't think they've happened with anything like the same speed or density. Not even during the late 15th century, which is the only period that might be comparable.

You could take someone from any period from around 1200 to 1700, park them anywhere else in the same half millennium, and while they might not feel completely at home they wouldn't be utterly perplexed.

Take someone from 1810 and park them in 2010 and they'll have no idea what's going on. They won't have any of the basic technical or social skills needed to function, they won't have any of the same references, and they likely won't even understand everyday human interactions.

Someone bright could certainly learn, eventually, but it would take them a long time - probably at least a few years from a cold start.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Sep 3rd, 2010 at 09:02:31 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But I still think you are looking at the density and significance of historical period events through modern eyes.

Our brains have not changed in 40.000+ year. We process the same amount of 'information' and we give it our own significance. As I've said before: 200 years ago the fluttering of the leaves in the trees, the ripples in the rivers, and the scudding of the clouds were equally resonant with significance as our fluttering of screens, rippling of memes or scudding of communications.

You can't be me, I'm taken

by Sven Triloqvist on Fri Sep 3rd, 2010 at 10:08:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
That is why the recent increase in the rate and extent of change has been and will be disorienting. When the habits by which one is raised to age 10 become significantly inapplicable by age 30, and when this extends across broad areas of life, many are disconcerted.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Sep 3rd, 2010 at 11:08:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ARGeezer:
When the habits by which one is raised to age 10 become significantly inapplicable by age 30

What a relief!

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Sep 3rd, 2010 at 11:20:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes! It was for me too. But not so much for many others, and many of our problems today are a consequence of the poorly handled distress of those others, and those problems seem likely to increase over the short term.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Fri Sep 3rd, 2010 at 12:59:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Our natural born brains haven't changed, but we're training them more and using them more.

See e.g. the Flynn effect.

Rustling leaves don't change much from day to day. In 2010 we're supposed to follow global news, keep on top of the latest bands, fashions and cultural events, and master technology that changes every year - and those are just basic social skills needed to stay in touch with friends.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 4th, 2010 at 12:02:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:
Rustling leaves don't change much from day to day.

look harder!

;)

differences in how leaves rustle aren't harbingers of life or death events, mostly any more. maybe that's the dig bifference.

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Sat Sep 4th, 2010 at 02:17:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Harvests are not exciting to us. But they were once the defining event for months ahead. Knowing when to harvest was crucial - the rustling of leaves would have been contributing evidence to the decision.

You can't be me, I'm taken
by Sven Triloqvist on Sat Sep 4th, 2010 at 01:31:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I personally dont know that that is looking from the right direction. The current period may or may not be significant. But the only way to tell is to look back in 200 years when we have perspective on the situation. Either we will have our recordings gratefully recieved or looked back on as snobbery on our part.  Write for yourself. Create for yourself.  If other people enjoy or find use, thats their affair.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Sep 4th, 2010 at 02:03:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Not snobbery. Pretentiosness. The trials of typing on a phone keypad and not being able to save till you can remember the right eorf.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Sat Sep 4th, 2010 at 05:15:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]
You're missing my point. I'm not saying that (e.g.) blogs, emails and texts are inherently interesting or memorable.

I'm saying that never before in history have so many people spent so much time and energy communicating with each other globally - and that being able to do these things, which used to be a pastime for an incredibly small educated elite, is now a basic social skill.

In fact what I think will happen - barring total breakdown - it's that the next step will be aggregating and tracing tools that can extract and summarise idea clouds in an empirical way.

Philosophy so far has been largely untroubled by empiricism, except at the edges.

When you have such a wealth of behavioural records for real populations on such a huge scale, you can model how people really think and act, not how they say or believe they think and act.

There are potential good and bad sides to this, but the bad sides don't necessarily fall outside the analysis, which - ironically - makes it easier to identify, label and compensate for them.

Currently we have 21st century technology with 15th century politics and finance.

This may change soon. ;)

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Sat Sep 4th, 2010 at 06:10:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, we can be fairly certain that several new "Carl Roves" are hard at work on this already and have adequate funding. What about those who want to turn these possibilities to the advantage of the many?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Sat Sep 4th, 2010 at 07:21:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]
ThatBritGuy:

In fact what I think will happen - barring total breakdown - it's that the next step will be aggregating and tracing tools that can extract and summarise idea clouds in an empirical way.

Philosophy so far has been largely untroubled by empiricism, except at the edges.

When you have such a wealth of behavioural records for real populations on such a huge scale, you can model how people really think and act, not how they say or believe they think and act.

very interesting points. especially about philosophy and empiricism...

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Mon Sep 6th, 2010 at 07:24:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Is this significant?
I tried to book a diving camp for my oldest girl on an island that I love, with an old friend from less than 15 years ago. It's coral reefs were unequaled in the Caribbean, in my experience. No soap. Industry gone, diving school closed, reefs a shadow of their former beauty and the remaining reef fish inedible from siguteria.

Capitalism searches out the darkest corners of human potential, and mainlines them.
by geezer in Paris (risico at wanadoo(flypoop)fr) on Fri Sep 3rd, 2010 at 12:18:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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