Display:
I'm still looking for a reasonably convenient source of organic meat that doesn't require me to drive significant distances. <sigh> The recession is making getting good ingredients significantly harder in supermarkets here.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 8th, 2010 at 07:33:48 AM EST
Move to Bremen. In my section of town, the organic markets are Tues & Fri on one end of Das Viertel, and Wed & Sat on the other end.  Includes three different farms, the organic butcher, the bio-cheese wagon, and the bio-wine wagon.

Of course, my organic coop is about 50 m from the Wed/Sat market, open 6 days.

there are other bio-markets elsewhere, a bio supermarket around the corner, and at least three small bio-shops.

makes it easy here.

"Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage." - Anaďs Nin

by Crazy Horse on Wed Sep 8th, 2010 at 07:59:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
this is the area, along with alt/ energy, where germany shines, (bad blip for nukes yesterday aside, i know).

it always cracks me up when i see the name 'REFORMHAUS', lol.

reforming the house could be named better 'rebuilding the Temple'.

england has got a few years on italy, in this respect, but germany is way ahead of both.

the good news about italy is that there are a lot of organic grains/legumes/fruits/nuts veggies here, even if most are for export, (60% of euro bio food comes from italy, iirc). there are some bio foods creeping onto the co-op supermarket shelves, slowly but surely.

i have discovered a cranio-sacrally aware osteopath in the vicinity, woot!

germany has much more progressive policies on natural healing modalities, greater civic acceptance/penetration. italy is changing, v-e-r-y slowly. maybe there's a greater need in germany too, the bigger the front, the bigger the back...

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 8th, 2010 at 08:44:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
We get our organic, grass-fed half of a beef each year in October. We get our organic half of a pig this month. We get our organic, free-range chicken eggs almost every week from 4 to 5 friends.

As pointed out below, it requires a freezer, of course. We keep our old (well insulated, heavy duty) freezer in the garage, so it barely has to run the compressor in the Winter.

Funny thing is, to me it tastes like meat 'in the old days'; to my kids it tastes "gamey".

Only problem is that our beef provider is ancient. As healthy as he is, he cannot live forever. I'm beginning to work on succession.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Wed Sep 8th, 2010 at 12:30:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Dairy is another problem. I am quite lactose tolerant and consume between 1 and 2 liters of 1% milk per day, especially when taking vitamins and supplements morning and night. We also use butter instead of any of the alternatives and I use about a half teaspoon of whipping cream in my coffee, which is sweetened with a tsp of honey and then topped up with three packets of artificial sweetners to make it taste sweet. My wife drinks about a liter of artificially sweetened cola per day.

My biggest health concern is about BPA in the containers both of my milk and of her soft drink containers. Also, sometimes there is a bitter taste to the milk which I suspect derives from process control problems in the bottling process involving too much heat that likely produces unhealthy byproducts. The commercially available milk likely also contains BST, bovine somatotrophin hormone, given to boost milk production, and possibly other hormones and contaminants present in the milk of dairy cows.

What I would like is a local dairy that bottles its products in glass. The last one of those shut down in Southern California about three years ago and there are none that I am aware of that distribute locally in Arkansas. I could likely keep chickens. I have the room -- so long as the neighbors don't complain. I live just inside the city limits and there are formal restrictions.

We had a cow for several years when I was a child and it was my job to milk her twice a day. The problem is that this results in six to eight gallons of milk per day and I would not want to go into the dairy products business. A 100kg to 200kg bovine would be about right, but I would really need a couple more acres which would cost me $8-10 thousand/acre - at present, and would require clearing of overgrown second growth forest. Fortunately, in a crisis, I am sure I could learn to do without dairy if I had to.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Sep 8th, 2010 at 01:24:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]
milk from a Wisconsin co-op called Organic Valley. It's 'ultra-pasteurized', so there's still that problem, plus I really know nothing about them except their claims. Tastes good, though.

We buy organic butter from Costco - their Kirkland brand - again without knowing much about the product. But Costco is an interesting story when it comes to such things. Their olive oil is as good as any available out here, and they claim that it's essentially organic, too. If any of our Italian friends know anything about their source, I'd like to know.

Story from 1972 - Mirta and I lived in an original homestead 'house' on a dairy farm. The milk was definitely organic and old-style. The farmer told us that the tanker truck driver threw in a 5-gallon bucket of formaldehyde every so many gallons of milk collected. In any case we bought raw milk directly, and it was the best of our experience.

paul spencer

by paul spencer (spencerinthegorge AT yahoo DOT com) on Wed Sep 8th, 2010 at 07:24:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sadly, the nearest Costco is two and a half hours away in Springfield, Mo.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Wed Sep 8th, 2010 at 07:43:45 PM EST
[ Parent ]
No locavore-type associations within reasonable distance? (Yeah, I know it's all the harder the larger the city.)

The other requirement is a fair-sized deep-freeze. The parcels we order (beef or lamb) contain 7 or 8 kgs.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Sep 8th, 2010 at 07:59:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
veganism is not for everyone, we are made to be omnivores.
meat itself is not bad per se, it's the phenomenal amounts consumed, and the terrible conditions factory farming imposes on the livestock and the ecosystem, which translates into toxic meat.

unless you are a master gardener like fukuoka, you're going to need to build your soil to grow crops, and i can't see anything but positives in small-to-medium scale animal husbandry, with its varieties of manure to enrich the compost pile.

even if you're a vegan and raise animals, i bet you can get a whole lot of lentils in trade for a rabbit or duck.

win/win!  

 

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 8th, 2010 at 08:52:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Please say that we developed as omnivores. It makes my head hurt less.
by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Wed Sep 8th, 2010 at 09:07:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
haha, ok.

at least i didn't say 'designed'!

the ratio of 'canine' human teeth to the others, is pretty self-explanatory...

plus the length of our gut.

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Sep 8th, 2010 at 12:35:12 PM EST
[ Parent ]
And the fact that our eyes are located on the same side of the head - that's the predator configuration (for maximum depth perception). Eyes on either side of the head is the prey configuration (for maximum directional coverage). Not only are we evolved to eat meat - we're evolved to kill stuff more often than run away from stuff.

- Jake

If you only spend 20 minutes of the rest of your life on economics, go spend them here.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Sep 8th, 2010 at 01:37:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
of you with both eyes on the same side of your head... like a flounder. Or a Picasso.

I suppose you mean, "on the front of our heads".

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Thu Sep 9th, 2010 at 06:48:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]


"Ce qui vient au monde pour ne rien troubler ne mérite ni égards ni patience." René Char
by Melanchthon on Thu Sep 9th, 2010 at 07:13:51 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The thing about being an omnivore, biologically, is that we can eat pretty well anything. And be reasonably healthy on an extraordinary range of different diets. A  characteristic we share with pigs and rats.

So, veganism is not for everyone, as you say Melo... nor is pure carnivorism, though both are valid and potentially healthy human diets. Historically and pre-historically, a base of vegetable/cereal with occasional meat is probably the norm for the great majority of human groups : whether gatherer/hunter or small farmers.

In terms of bang for your buck, not all animals are equal. Pigs are more equal than others (as Orwell noted). Poultry are even better. I'm talking about the ratio of conversion of fodder into meat. Small farmers know this intuitively.

Beef is pretty lousy, except for the fact (assertion?) that there are large areas which are only good for grazing... however, in Europe at least, most of the cattle get most of their food from specially-grown crops, not from grass or hay.

I must look up the numbers for sheep meat.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Thu Sep 9th, 2010 at 06:47:00 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Hmmm, I am extremely well served for organic supplies (selection of butchers within striking range, ditto farmer's markets) but London is weird like that.

How is it in the Republic once you get away from Dublin? Are there still the sort of markets where you can find decent local suppliers in the smaller towns or was all that sort of thing hoovered up by the Celtic Tiger before it sicked up a massive hairball and then buggered off with all the money?

Regards
Luke

-- #include witty_sig.h

by silburnl on Wed Sep 8th, 2010 at 10:07:36 AM EST
[ Parent ]
from a hippy-dream farmhouse in the country, to a flat in town, much sounder ecologically of course...

and I'm missing the food sources. In my case, a couple of producers' co-ops where I used to buy all my fruit, veg, dairy and meat (only a minority are organic... but given a choice between locally-produced and organic, I will choose on price!)

These shops were conveniently located on my commute into town. I'm now orphaned, but will be checking out local consumers' co-operatives in Lyon.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Thu Sep 9th, 2010 at 06:30:09 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series