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The quoted segment says that a critique of science may have fostered some anti-science rhetoric from the right, but Berube is quite clear in recent writings that he believes the blame falls mostly on Scientists who disavow the cultural contexts in which their work is placed.
He redid the whole Sokal affair just recently and exposed the flawed underpinnings of Sokal's thinking.
I think it's quite telling that the whole Sokal hoax happened 16 years ago, and here we are, still using it as a bugaboo against the Humanities left in America. This is just a favorite punching bag of the right who hate academia in general, and in fact, the people who most often use Sokal are people PAID to do so, like David Horowitz. Even though Sokal's entire attempt has been debunked.
As with Zizek (who I disagree with on critical grounds) you have to read Berube to critique them. otherwise, we're just discussing practically nothing.
Michael Bérubé for Democracy Journal: The Science Wars Redux
But what of Sokal's chief post-hoax claim that the academic left's critiques of science were potentially damaging to the left? That one, alas... (etc)
...Fifteen years ago, it seemed to me that the Sokal Hoax was making that kind of deal impossible, deepening the "two cultures" divide and further estranging humanists from scientists... (etc)
"He revisits the affair in which Sokal published a hoax essay in Social Text, attempting to show that postmodern leftist academic writing was, in short, lazy and harmful to the left."
Bad writing, since "attempting" refers back to Berube. Berube is not obviously attempting that. As a lead in to Berube's piece, I thought it was unfortunate, even if it was badly written. The actual text from Berube seemed to me exactly what I purported it to be, and not at all divergent from his critique of Sokal. The only divergence I read in that quotation was in Faris purporting to characterize Berube. That's why I objected to it.
The larger point I am making is that Berube is saying the rightwing has misused and mischaracterized poststructural arguments, and then he further goes on to say that the same thing has happened with Sokal's own arguments in the whole affair:
For instance, this piece, a .pdf: http://www.physics.nyu.edu/faculty/sokal/berube_AmerSci_Jan-Feb_09.pdf
Read especially Berube's critique of Sokal's reading of scientist Sam Harris's pimping for Intelligent Design. There, Berube makes the case that the right's anti-scientific bent is as much a product of science's empiricism as it is on poststructualism's semiotic rhetoric.
Sokal replies to Berube's critique: "But I think the last part of your review is a bit off the mark, because (unlike Harris) I most definitely do not advocate a realist view of ethics in my book. Quite simply, I do not feel I know enough about the philosophy of ethics to adopt any position on the foundations of ethics. I therefore explicitly limit my philosophical discussion to cognitive questions (i.e. questions of fact) and avoid any discussion of ethics or aesthetics."
An odd position, since science studies is based in ethics, and he has embroiled himself in the question with the Hoax in the first place. If he is indeed "limiting" himself to questions of fact, all that he has demonstrated is that the editor of the journal is not very aware of scientific studies and principles. And yet the Hoax has been deemed an attack on these very questions of poststructural philosophy and ethics, which Sokal says he tries to delimit. Very odd.
In the Berube article posted on Democracy, it's pretty evident that Berube is addressing the RECEPTION of the Hoax, and not the Hoax itself. I would draw a distinction between the two. After all, Hitler loved Nietzsche--which to me seems a bastardization of enormous proportions.
Finally, you can see in the comments to that article the degree to which some scientists absolutely abhor any social critique of science. It's as though Oppenheimer really didn't say, "Behold, I am become death."
He revisits the affair in which Sokal published a hoax essay in Social Text, attempting to show that postmodern leftist academic writing was, in short, lazy and harmful to the left
It's a purely formal point, but that is indeed Faris in the blog Ted links to. I understood your comment to point to something Ted had said.
Secondly, I read that, not as Bérubé "attempting to show...", but Sokal. While you read:
Upstate NY:
"attempting" refers back to Berube. Berube is not obviously attempting that.
Purely formal, as I say, but it doesn't help discussion.
To your main point: I'm reading Bérubé with the pleasure that always gives me, and will attempt to report back.
The only thing "new" about the Berube and Sokal engagement is in considering the Hoax's reception 15 years later especially in light of the rightwing's anti-science/anti-Humanities crusade. Berube is saying that both have become useful dupes.
on a grammatical level, the characterization was attributed to Berube
Not to PN this to death, but there is no sound grammatical reason why "attempting" should refer to "He" (Bérubé) or to "Sokal", or to "essay". And sense is only made when it refers to Sokal and his essay, not to Bérubé.
But it's just quick bloggy writing, of course.
Post Hoax, Ergo Propter Hoax » American Scientist
But I [Bérubé] am convinced that theories of social justice are qualitatively different things than, say, neutrinos or Neptune. I'm therefore inclined to accept John Searle's distinction between the worlds of "brute fact" and "social fact," and to insist that in the world of social fact, things like "theories of social justice" are indeed socially constructed.This position puts me at odds with people such as Sam Harris, whom Sokal discusses at length in his chapter on religion. Harris writes, in The End of Faith,In philosophical terms, pragmatism can be directly opposed to realism. For the realist, our statements about the world will be "true" or "false" not merely in virtue of how they function amid the welter of our other beliefs, or with reference to any culture-bound criteria, but because reality simply is a certain way, independent of our thoughts. Realists believe that there are truths about the world that may exceed our capacity to know them; there are facts of the matter whether or not we can bring such facts into view. To be an ethical realist is to believe that in ethics, as in physics, there are truths waiting to be discovered--and thus we can be right or wrong in our beliefs about them."Postmodern" pragmatists such as Rorty and myself [Bérubé] think this is a truly unfortunate way of thinking about truths in human affairs.
But I [Bérubé] am convinced that theories of social justice are qualitatively different things than, say, neutrinos or Neptune. I'm therefore inclined to accept John Searle's distinction between the worlds of "brute fact" and "social fact," and to insist that in the world of social fact, things like "theories of social justice" are indeed socially constructed.
This position puts me at odds with people such as Sam Harris, whom Sokal discusses at length in his chapter on religion. Harris writes, in The End of Faith,
In philosophical terms, pragmatism can be directly opposed to realism. For the realist, our statements about the world will be "true" or "false" not merely in virtue of how they function amid the welter of our other beliefs, or with reference to any culture-bound criteria, but because reality simply is a certain way, independent of our thoughts. Realists believe that there are truths about the world that may exceed our capacity to know them; there are facts of the matter whether or not we can bring such facts into view. To be an ethical realist is to believe that in ethics, as in physics, there are truths waiting to be discovered--and thus we can be right or wrong in our beliefs about them.
"Postmodern" pragmatists such as Rorty and myself [Bérubé] think this is a truly unfortunate way of thinking about truths in human affairs.
My own view is close to Bérubé's - who goes on honestly to point out loopy postmodern behaviour (and this is the "pimping for ID"):
Case in point on the opposite side: Unwittingly bolstering Sokal's argument, one prominent science-studies scholar has recently weighed in on the side of people who believe in angels: Not long after enthusiastically blurbing Meera Nanda's book, saying "this first detailed examination of postmodernism's politically reactionary consequences should serve as a wake-up call for all conscientious leftists," sociologist of science Steve Fuller arrived in Dover, Pennsylvania, to testify in favor of the teaching of "intelligent design" in that school district's seventh-grade science curriculum. And he did so, tellingly, by deliberately confusing the context of discovery with the context of justification, arguing that intelligent design is worth pursuing partly because great scientists of the past--such as Newton--believed in God.So we have a science-studies scholar criticizing postmodernism and stumping for creationism, religious fundamentalists calling on God to smite the infidels, and "ethical realists" arguing for a moral absolutism. Sokal is appropriately alarmed by the first two of these phenomena, but, unfortunately, his book's closing argument--which, again, echoes that of Harris--is that all human beliefs should be judged by the degree to which they are supported by verifiable empirical evidence. That rationalist dog just won't hunt;
Case in point on the opposite side: Unwittingly bolstering Sokal's argument, one prominent science-studies scholar has recently weighed in on the side of people who believe in angels: Not long after enthusiastically blurbing Meera Nanda's book, saying "this first detailed examination of postmodernism's politically reactionary consequences should serve as a wake-up call for all conscientious leftists," sociologist of science Steve Fuller arrived in Dover, Pennsylvania, to testify in favor of the teaching of "intelligent design" in that school district's seventh-grade science curriculum. And he did so, tellingly, by deliberately confusing the context of discovery with the context of justification, arguing that intelligent design is worth pursuing partly because great scientists of the past--such as Newton--believed in God.
So we have a science-studies scholar criticizing postmodernism and stumping for creationism, religious fundamentalists calling on God to smite the infidels, and "ethical realists" arguing for a moral absolutism. Sokal is appropriately alarmed by the first two of these phenomena, but, unfortunately, his book's closing argument--which, again, echoes that of Harris--is that all human beliefs should be judged by the degree to which they are supported by verifiable empirical evidence. That rationalist dog just won't hunt;
This leaves me a touch mystified by your reference to Harris and ID (a Google search for some other place where Bérubé discussed this has your comment above in first place among the search results..!).
Overall, here and in the longer and more recent The Science Wars Redux, (which is dated Winter 2011 and is perhaps the recent revisit you mentioned), I find Bérubé's attitude towards Sokal balanced, even conciliatory:
But what of Sokal's chief post-hoax claim that the academic left's critiques of science were potentially damaging to the left? That one, alas, has held up very well, for it turns out that the critique of scientific "objectivity" and the insistence on the inevitable "partiality" of knowledge can serve the purposes of climate-change deniers and young-Earth creationists quite nicely. That's not because there was something fundamentally rotten at the core of philosophical anti-foundationalism (whose leading American exponent, Richard Rorty, remained a progressive Democrat all his life), but it might very well have had something to do with the cloistered nature of the academic left.
What he's interested in, it seems to me, is getting out of a sterile face-off between a "hard-science" left and a "social-relativist" left (my approximate terms) and into something more positive, like making the world a better place, that science twinned with socio-cultural understanding may address. And:
the world really is divvied up into "brute fact" and "social fact," just as philosopher John Searle says it is, but the distinction between brute fact and social fact is itself a social fact, not a brute fact, which is why the history of science is so interesting.
One, I was wrong about Harris. I meant the other guy, Fuller is the ID pimp.
But Berube uses Fuller as an example of empiricist craziness, not Postmodern craziness. That's why he brought him up in the first place.
This is what he says:
So we have a science-studies scholar criticizing postmodernism and pimping for creationism ... and ethical realists calling for moral absolutism.
Read your longer quote again. Berube is saying that Fuller (the loopy one) believes postmodernism's politically reactionary consequences should concern leftists. In other words, he critiques postmodernity. Berube characterizes him as an ethical realist, a group he situates within the realms of scientific empiricism. The passage is a bit confusing because he writes that Fuller unwittingly bolsters Sokal's argument. Unwittingly why? Well, in the first place, he's a science-studies scholar who--according to Berube--gets it wrong. But Berube continues and wonders why scientists such as Sokal are not dismissive of ethical realists such as Fuller. It's only reserved for poststructuralists.
As for the last bit, I'll emphasize again that he is referring to the REACTION to the hoax, and not the essence of the hoax. I seriously doubt his critique of the essence of the hoax has changed. It couldn't have since Sokal misrepresented the people he was reading in the same manner that he argued science-studies people were misreading science. It was the blind talking to the blind. The reaction to the hoax is interesting. I can't say it isn't. But Berube is saying that not only has science-studies been co-opted, butt hat so has Sokal. He has. I mentioned David Horowitz. People trot out Sokal all the time.
We live in an insipid media-dominated culture in which anyone with anything complex to say is drowned out instantly. I would say that it all becomes reducible, science-studies and science itself. If you read the American Right's "rigorous" rationale's for almost any position--whether we should be shooting immigrants like pigs, or whether rape is a young girl's fault, or whatever flavor of the week they are bloviating against--well clearly this is a problem of something other than insular academia. The levels of philosophical discussion in this debate do have an impact on the culture, but not an immediate one and certainly one that can be extrapolated and distorted. But to say it can be is not to say that it should be. My Hitler and Nietzsche analogy was meant to convey this idea.
Now I'll be forced to go into Zizek in depth here, but maybe not until later on.
Which no one here has claimed, and the depravity of the right has nothing to do with Zizek's bullshit, lack thereof, or relevance in general.
you are the media you consume.
he is referring to the REACTION to the hoax, and not the essence of the hoax.
Well, that's what matters, imo. The hoax was carried out with an intention, and how it was received/perceived is arguably the most important thing about it. From that angle, Bérubé is arguing for a necessary end to hostilities of the kind ThatBritGuy alludes to:
ThatBritGuy:
I remain mystified why both sides are attacking each other while academic economics continues to drive the world over a cliff.
Bérubé (again!):
it [the hoax] may have helped set the terms for an eventual rapprochement, leading both humanists and scientists to realize that the shared enemies of their enterprises are the religious fundamentalists who reject all knowledge that challenges their faith and the free-market fundamentalists whose policies will surely scorch the earth
A fitting conclusion on Bérubé, for me. On Zizek, if you want to write on him, great. I won't promise to read his books, though...
I'd disagree to the extent that it's not the free-market and religious fundies who are the problem, but the processes by which their ideas become influential.
See earlier comments about Dawkins, etc. I think attacking the ideas on their own terms is tangential, because the ideas are disposable and can be replaced by other idiocies at short notice.
The underlying power relationships - the means by which the ideas can influence populations and eventually direct policy choices - are far more relevant to a social critique, because it's the processes themselves that create conformity and leverage.
The hoax was carried out with an intention, and how it was received/perceived is arguably the most important thing about it.
There is a well organized anti-academic attack in the USA funded by corporate and ideological interests. My younger brother has a friend who makes attack dog propaganda films, and for some reason he sends me an email of his latest release. He accidentally includes ccs and an email list. The names of some very prominent people, including the funders of the attack on academia are on it. In the USA, there are student groups dedicated to taping their professors' lectures waiting for a gotcha moment. In 99% of the cases, the moments are edited for maximum propaganda value.
I think the kinds of distortions that occur AFTER an event cannot be the responsibility of those who set it into motion, so I disagree with Berube there. The distortions serve a political purpose which exists prior to the event. Here, I find myself defending Sokal because I think his hoax has been used as a tool by rightwingers to bludgeon leftwingers. The actual hoax itself was a tempest in a teapot. You get much more vociferous banter in a quarterly journal. In this case, the scandal of a hoax is what got people interested. If Sokal had taken on the science studies people head-on, no one would have ever heard about it. The hoax itself was really easy pickings for a non-peer reviewed journal.
The rightwing will say anything. In order to prevent your words from being misused, you shouldn't say anything.
Actually I meant to link directly to Berube, but the link I gave provided a link to Berube's recent article.
"Berube has not backed off one bit from his critique of Sokal. Not one bit."
This is just utter rubbish, I had assumed you could read. But I'll quote Berube himself once again, you might have checked what HE said via the link given at mchaeljfaris.com:
Berube: "But what of Sokal's chief post-hoax claim that the academic left's critiques of science were potentially damaging to the left? That one, alas, has held up very well, for it turns out that the critique of scientific "objectivity" and the insistence on the inevitable "partiality" of knowledge can serve the purposes of climate-change deniers and young-Earth creationists quite nicely. That's not because there was something fundamentally rotten at the core of philosophical anti-foundationalism (whose leading American exponent, Richard Rorty, remained a progressive Democrat all his life), but it might very well have had something to do with the cloistered nature of the academic left. It was as if we had tacitly assumed, all along, that we were speaking only to one another, so that whenever we championed Jean-François Lyotard's defense of the "hetereogeneity of language games" and spat on Jürgen Habermas's ideal of a conversation oriented toward "consensus," we assumed a strong consensus among us that anyone on the side of heterogeneity was on the side of the angels. http://www.democracyjournal.org/19/6789.php?page=5
http://www.democracyjournal.org/19/6789.php?page=5
And, just to be absolutely clear, HE says that he has indeed changed his views from 15 years before:
Fifteen years ago, it seemed to me that the Sokal Hoax was making that kind of deal impossible, deepening the "two cultures" divide and further estranging humanists from scientists. Now, I think it may have helped set the terms for an eventual rapprochement, leading both humanists and scientists to realize that the shared enemies of their enterprises are the religious fundamentalists who reject all knowledge that challenges their faith and the free-market fundamentalists whose policies will surely scorch the earth. On my side, perhaps humanists are beginning to realize that there is a project even more vital than that of the relentless critique of everything existing, a project to which they can contribute as much as any scientist-the project of making the world a more humane and livable place. http://www.democracyjournal.org/19/6789.php?page=6
Fifteen years ago, it seemed to me that the Sokal Hoax was making that kind of deal impossible, deepening the "two cultures" divide and further estranging humanists from scientists. Now, I think it may have helped set the terms for an eventual rapprochement, leading both humanists and scientists to realize that the shared enemies of their enterprises are the religious fundamentalists who reject all knowledge that challenges their faith and the free-market fundamentalists whose policies will surely scorch the earth. On my side, perhaps humanists are beginning to realize that there is a project even more vital than that of the relentless critique of everything existing, a project to which they can contribute as much as any scientist-the project of making the world a more humane and livable place.
http://www.democracyjournal.org/19/6789.php?page=6
There are two different things at play here. That is, the ACTUAL hoax and Sokal's arguments in Longua Franca which had to do with the legitimacy of the field. Berube has NEVER changed his critique of that, and the other link I gave to his essay in American Scientist shows that. Indeed, your link shows that too.
As for the reaction to the hoax, and Sokal's contention that a critique of science could be potentially utilized by nefarious interests, that's what Berube is agreeing with here. But Berube also thinks that scientists themselves are similarly ripe for that kind of misuse. In fact, he believes the insistence that ethics and culture are somehow not relevant to scientific inquiry presents Creationists with the kind of wide-open trojan horse that inserts itself into science and distorts it.
To lament that poststructural critique was somehow a tool in the anti-science arsenal is not to say that poststructural critique was ineffectual, wrong or useless. Quite evidently it was not useless.
It shows exactly the opposite.
Berube says that Sokal's main claim after the hoax has been justified AND - referring to the HOAX ITSELF - he clearly HAS changed his mind, and hopes that those on his side can change their emphasis, as he says, to quote it again - maybe you'll get it this time:
Those on his side? Uh, BERUBE is the foremost Poststructuralist in the USA outside Jonathan Culler, and what's more, the foremost Cultural Studies person with a Poststructuralist background.
In his critique of Sokal's Hoax, he proved that Sokal was a hypocrite for deliberately misrepresenting and misreading his interlocutors. It's a fact that he misread it. No ambiguity whatsoever.
You're misreading this attempt by Berube to say, we've both been misused and we'd be smart of pool our efforts here. You think Berube has actually disavowed the cultural critique of science? To the contrary, he has not. Read the recent article in American Scientist that I just linked to.
It's almost as if academic economics - and the extremes of the Randian left - have become immune to humanist critique.
Science may be ambiguous, but attempting to analyse it politically is an insane thing to do when the centre of political gravity is somewhere else entirely.
I'd be far more interested in poststructural critiques of the the ethical sterility of economics from the social left, and of the lack of practical and theoretical rigour from the scientific left.
Instead the two sides who have spent more than twenty years sniping at each other, with no lasting benefit or conclusion more practical than cocktail party chatter - while an evil lizard has been rampaging around them, picking their pockets, stealing their lunch, and jumping up and down on their cars.
This is odd behaviour.
By the way, the subject of this particular diary is Zizek, a man who believes--as any good Marxist would--economics is a privileged discipline. So, it's fitting here that you made your point in a diary on Zizek, because all he wants to talk about is economics.
In short, there is no war of the kind that is imagined in this Sokal exchange. I was just pointing out that the exchange in the first place was distorted, and then used as a cudgel by the right. There are no people arguing between Sokal and Berube today (and the link shows that's the case because Sokal salutes Berube and says, "It's been a long time since we exchanged pleasantries," and then Berube says maybe we should band together to blast the anti-science people.
As for me, I reject the idea that economics is at the root of misery now. There is no privileged discourse for discussing our current situation. We have resource problems, science problems, we still have nuclear weapons, etc.
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