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Post-war Netherlands was different from what was before.

On education, the patron was the government, with both stick and carrot. The stick for secondary education - it's still obligatory to go to school until age 18. The carrot by creating government hand-outs/subsidies to enter tertiary education, which was by and far a success, which has ended us in a white collar society.

Now I think of it, this actually contributed to the creation of another subculture, about which I had a discussion today: the masses without any degrees beyond secondary schooling (and some people don't even have these). They are principally cut off from social interaction through their educational barrier, and a lot of them are angry, and vent their anger by voting into power populist movements, that put policies in place to cut off access to tertiary funding for the less-endowed...

by Nomad on Mon Mar 7th, 2011 at 12:38:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I am reminded of this: JK Galbraith and the culture wars
Thus a part of the country with a high rate of accommodation to the requirements of the planning system, i.e., a good educational system and a well-qualified working force, will attract industry and have a strong aspect of well-being. It will be the natural Canaan of the more energetic among those who were brn in less favoured communities. This for long explained the migration from the South, Southwest and border states to California, the upper Middle  West and the eastern seaboard. Many of these migrants were unqualified for employment in the planning system. They thus contributed heavily to welfare and unemployment rolls in the communities to which they moved. The nature of the opprobium to which they were subject is indicated by the appellations that sometimes still are applied to them--hillbillies, Okies, junglebunnies. It is not that they were and are poorer but that they were and are culturally deprived. It is such groups, not the working proletariat, that now react in resentment and violence to their subordination.

Politics also reflects the new division. In the United States suspicion or resentment is no longer directed at the capitalists or the merely rich. It is the intellectuals--the effete snobs--who are eyed with misgiving and alarm. This should surprise no one. Nor should it be a matter of surprise when semiliterate millionnaires turn up leading or financing the ignorant in struggle against the intellectually privileged and content. This further reflects the relevant class distinction in our time.

A further consequence of the new pattern of unemployment is that full employment, though it remains an important test of the success of the economic system, can be approached only against increasing resistance. For, as noted, while the unemployed are reduced in numbers, they come to consist more and more of those, primarily the uneducated, who are unemployable in the planning system. The counterpart of this resistant core is a growing number of vacancies for highly qualified workers and a strong bargaining position for those who are employed. This leads to the final source of instability in the planning system and to yet a further resort to the state. This [the control of the wage-price spiral] we now examine.

So, to what extent are we going to move towards a system where a good educational system and a well-qualified working force are not requirements?

So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 7th, 2011 at 01:01:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Migeru:

So, to what extent are we going to move towards a system where a good educational system and a well-qualified working force are not requirements?

To the extent that the elite have a seperate system for quality goods and services. After all, no one wants to get their roof in the head, being operated by a barber or eat poison. But if the elite can import/have a small staff on hand, then the hoi polloi can eat poison and die.

On the other hand China and India will need a good educational system and a well-qualified working force.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Mon Mar 7th, 2011 at 03:11:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]
JKG:
A further consequence of the new pattern of unemployment is that full employment, though it remains an important test of the success of the economic system, can be approached only against increasing resistance.

The difference is that Galbraith was concerned with full employment while today's "mainstream economists" see outsourcing as inevitable and necessary and the resulting un- and under employment as equally inevitable. This follows from their privileging economic activity over all other social activities and this will reliably destroy the society unless successfully opposed.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Mar 7th, 2011 at 09:00:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Nomad:
They are principally cut off from social interaction through their educational barrier, and a lot of them are angry, and vent their anger by voting into power populist movements, that put policies in place to cut off access to tertiary funding for the less-endowed...
So it's a group that is able to perpetuate itself and expand by voting in people who ensure more people fall out of the tertiary educational system?

So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Mon Mar 7th, 2011 at 01:03:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Yes. Not that such is an intentional development, I think (I'd hope). For example the Wilders cohorts are all woo-ha about Evil Government and the Sanctimony of the Free Market Powers (not-withstanding the bits that would make them unpopular, then none of this applies). The Rutte-liberals are more of the same.

The Socialist Party, although riddled with populist sentiments, at least has the priorities for creating entry to tertiary education right, but doesn't address the issue of the diary, that is, educated people getting phased out of the workspace...

Intuitively, I'd say that barring entrance to higher education is much more of a threat to a stable, well-faring society than the other - but it will be, if educated workers are burdened by huge debts inherited by their education...

by Nomad on Mon Mar 7th, 2011 at 06:34:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Sanctimony of the Free Market Powers aptly describes much of the realm of economics today.  :-)

Two Freudian typos in one diary!?

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."

by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Mon Mar 7th, 2011 at 09:04:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]
How is that a typo?

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi
by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Tue Mar 8th, 2011 at 12:52:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
sanctimony - definition of sanctimony by the Free Online ...
sanc·ti·mo·ny (s ngk t -m n ). n. Feigned piety or righteousness; hypocritical devoutness or high-mindedness. [Obsolete French sanctimonie, from Latin s ...
www.thefreedictionary.com/sanctimony - Cached - Similar

Sanctity would better fit what I presume to be the  intention.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Mar 8th, 2011 at 11:21:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Or sanctimony might have been used intentionally, hence the question mark.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Tue Mar 8th, 2011 at 11:24:05 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Mmm I guess you're right and sanctity would have seemed to be more likely. But sanctimony made so much sense to me that I did not even think about it!

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi
by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Wed Mar 9th, 2011 at 11:13:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Or should that be think of it?

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi
by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Wed Mar 9th, 2011 at 11:14:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]
If a higher education is no longer a ticket to a high income, then higher education cannot be expensive.

If it is, then only the wealthy and the geniuses who managed to be found deserving of sponsorship will get a higher education.

Our society is complex and is still going to need educated people. The average level of education is unlikely to drop much, if at all. It's just that educated people won't get sexy jobs, but that may not bother them much if they weren't expecting a sexy job and very few of their peers have a sexy job and if they do it's not because of their education.

Part of the problem is that universities have gotten into the business of vocational training which is a different function from providing education in critical thinking and all that. But that's a topic for another day.

In any case, if a graduate cannot expect a well-paying job, education cannot be expensive. If you can't make six figures from a law degree, then law schools will have to stop charging an arm and a leg for admission [incidentally, note how that NY Times story is filed under business, not education]. I mean, a law school needs a library. How can it be more expensive to study law than to study experimental physics, which needs a lab? But studying physics cannot be expensive either, because then you'd only have the wealthy and the sponsored doing it, and the wealthy don't send their children to study physics because it's actually hard if all you want is the degree. So maybe experimental physics education will disappear outside corporate-sponsored training, but somehow I doubt [wishfully think?] that's what's going to happen.

The fact is that, when people pay high prices for education these days they're not paying for the education. They're paying to get some of the school's name recognition to rub off to them. They're paying for the access to internships and job bourses at firms sponsoring the study programme, and they're paying for the networking and/or the access to a particular social milieu. Because those are the things that determine how well your future job will pay, not the quality of your education.

So, in what may be my last act of "advising", I'll advise you to cut the jargon. -- My old PhD advisor, to me, 26/2/11

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Tue Mar 8th, 2011 at 02:01:37 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The fact is that, when people pay high prices for education these days they're not paying for the education. They're paying to get some of the school's name recognition to rub off to them. They're paying for the access to internships and job bourses at firms sponsoring the study programme, and they're paying for the networking and/or the access to a particular social milieu.

Or they are paying because a chance to get that good internship and networking is the best available option. Meaning, there are no better options, or few options at all.

But as with all chance games, there will be winners and sore loosers. Just as diving into the real estate bubble was reasonable for quite a while, because of a chance (often more objective than subjective) to get to the comfortable rentier or creditor status while most of other people would have to scramble. There are still many comments about the gap between incomes with or without high education - but perhaps more spectacular is the distribution of income among the highly educated. You either get a place at a bank or a law firm, or you have to go stripping to pay off the study loan.

by das monde on Tue Mar 8th, 2011 at 07:28:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The problem is in the time gap (as well as in the aforementioned random factor, creating winners and losers).
If its stops paying, it WILL have to become cheap. But that does not solve the problem of major debts incurred by people who graduated just as it stopped paying.

Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed. Gandhi
by Cyrille (cyrillev domain yahoo.fr) on Wed Mar 9th, 2011 at 11:13:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Institutions of higher learning have, effectively, priced themselves out of the market. The core of a college education can be provided much cheaper than what is currently on offer. They will just have to be primarily concerned with education, not secondarily, at best. What makes universities expensive is all the accouterments that follow from the proposition that everywhere there is a collection of PhD's that have the knowledge and ability to produce more  Masters and PhDs that they should do so and that every university must have all requisite facilities, regardless of the practical demand for new PhDs. We are at a point in the USA where every two year college can find PhDs to teach most of its courses.

As the Dutch said while fighting the Spanish: "It is not necessary to have hope in order to persevere."
by ARGeezer (ARGeezer a in a circle eurotrib daught com) on Thu Mar 10th, 2011 at 10:07:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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