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Out at this distance, being London comuterland, just over an hour by train from St Pancras station, it's £800 to rent a 2 bed house/flat, with an extra £600 to spend on monthly train tickets to get to work if you work in the London. so that's clos to £17,000 a year before you start to think about food and bills

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 07:26:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
How on earth did I manage to rent a 3 bed house for less than 1000 in Tube area 3, which meant 100/mo per adult for public transport? What's happened since 2008?

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 07:47:28 AM EST
[ Parent ]
well the bubble went up to it's peak, plus buy to let percentage bonus so market rate is set  at that price point. and everyone else then rents at that market rate.

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 07:50:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Can you do me a favour and upload a static copy of this graph?

Looks like the bubble did deflate, got stabilised and is deflating again.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 08:18:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
i know it's the express, so as realistic as rollerskating Hippos

Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: 2015 housing recovery predicted

Improvements to the major banks' balance sheets should lead to them loosening their strict lending criteria, enabling more people to buy a home.

The previous upturn in the housing market was caused by a mismatch between supply and demand, but the recovery petered out as economic uncertainty caused potential buyers to sit on their hands, while those who wanted to press ahead with a purchase continued to face problems raising the mortgage finance they needed.

But CEBR said with just 130,000 new homes built in 2010, around half the level needed to keep pace with the growing number of households, prices should increase by 16% between 2011 and 2015, the equivalent of a gain of around 4% a year.

The recovery will be more marked in London, with demand from international buyers, as the pound remains weak, set to push up the cost of housing in the capital by around 2% a year more than across the UK as a whole.


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 08:38:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]


Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 08:38:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
It hasn't changed much. You were in an unpopular area.

The rent for that area today is still around £1000-1200 for a 3br.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 09:16:24 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Yeah, I guess upstanding white English don't want to share their neighbourhood with pakis, blacks, polish plumbers, students, kiwis and aussies on their 2 years abroad, white trash, and other assorted rabble.

If Helen is complaining that prices out in suburbia are outrageous, well, colour me unimpressed.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 09:35:43 AM EST
[ Parent ]
£1k pcm is about what you'd pay for a 4 bed out here.

I think I may have mentioned the local manor house - not a huge country house, but more than 4 beds - is being rented for £2k pcm.

At the other extreme the top line London properties go for around £1-3m for a penthouse flat in a des area, to £3-5m for a family house somewhere on the outskirts, two or three times that closer in, and £20-40m for a premium property near the centre.

There are rumours the flats in Hyde Park One - supposedly the most expensive tower block in London - sold for around £70m.

An estate near me with four substantial houses and a fair amount of land sold for around £6m recently.

Typical "successful middle class" homes - lawyers, business owners, small-scale entrepreneurs, minion-class board members, thieves and gangsters - are consistently between £1-2m in most of the UK, and maybe double that around the London green belts.

I have no idea how these prices compare to the rest of the EU.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 09:57:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm complaining that the entire UK housing market is hopelessly distorted and massively over-priced.

As for Leyton being "cheap", it has always been true that you can always tell Londoners as they (mostly) live outside the M25. London is full of people who weren't born there and are on their way somewhere else (better probably).

Anybody who wants to won a house with garden cannot possibly afford london anymore, so they leave.

As this letter in the Independent explained today (I didn't write it);-

Once upon a time, not too long ago, a single bread-winner could go out and earn sufficient money to both feed a typical family and pay a reasonable mortgage. Nowadays two bread-winners are struggling to earn sufficient to be able to save for a deposit ("Britain to become a nation of renters", 31 May).

Obviously something has gone badly wrong; either rates of pay are far too low or house prices are far too high. The only two solutions seem to be to raise wages or to build a lot more council houses to reduce house prices.

Incidentally, if the principle of "right to buy" is such a good principle, why isn't it extended to the private rented sector?



keep to the Fen Causeway
by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 10:01:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Anybody who wants to own a house with garden
That's why the diary is called "Strange Housing Priorities". My parallel with suburbia does not seem out of place. If "Londoners" live "outside the M25" (i.e., outside the Greater London Authority let alone London proper) and everyone wants "a house with a garden" it's not so different from America's sprawl where people will mortgage themselves to the hilt to own a huge house out in the desert and commute 2h each way in traffic jams.

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 10:28:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
where people will mortgage themselves to the hilt to own a huge house out in the desert and commute 2h each way in traffic jams.

Dude, we don't all live in Southern California. ;)

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 10:48:15 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I know... But it appears "Ground Zeros" of the real estate bust are a dime a dozen in the US. Denver, Florida...

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 10:51:47 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Once upon a time, not too long ago, a single bread-winner could go out and earn sufficient money to both feed a typical family and pay a reasonable mortgage. Nowadays two bread-winners are struggling to earn sufficient to be able to save for a deposit ("Britain to become a nation of renters", 31 May).

Obviously something has gone badly wrong; either rates of pay are far too low or house prices are far too high. The only two solutions seem to be to raise wages or to build a lot more council houses to reduce house prices.


Same here and I suppose almost everywhere...

Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind...Albert Einstein
by vbo on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 09:04:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Out at this distance, being London comuterland, just over an hour by train from St Pancras station, it's £800 to rent a 2 bed house/flat, with an extra £600 to spend on monthly train tickets to get to work if you work in the London.

That's insane.

An hour by ordinary commuter rail... that's what, 100 km? And you're not crossing any expensive bridges or tunnels.

Two adults, monthly rail cards, 100 km, no choke points, that shouldn't work out to more than £100-200. Tops.

What has the UK been doing to its rail net?

- Jake

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 10:18:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But if you move within area 6 of the Transport for London system you can cut those commute costs to under 200 pounds a month. And you will be able to find a 2-bed for 800 in that range (albeit in an "unpopular" - i.e., full of the wrong kind of regular people).

It's all about choices.

But, yes, I was just checking that a 1-way ticket from Luton to St. Pancras (30 minute train ride) costs 13 pounds off-peak. So spending 30 pounds a day commuting into London (plus some London public transport) does not seem impossible.

Economics is politics by other means

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 10:22:55 AM EST
[ Parent ]
But, yes, I was just checking that a 1-way ticket from Luton to St. Pancras (30 minute train ride) costs 13 pounds off-peak.

But any properly run rail net has a tiered price scheme, where greater commitment on volume nets you lower price. That separates chumps and tourists from their money more efficiently, while still allowing commuters to pay only the (lower) true economic cost.

If you buy a monthly card and you're not getting at least 50 % off the one-way price, you should feel like someone's cheating you. Coz they would be. Hell, in Copenhagen, a ten-trip card gives you 30-40 % off the one-way price, and the monthly card breaks even with the ten-ticket packs at around 40 trips per month.

- Jake

Austerity can only be implemented in the shadow of a concentration camp.

by JakeS (JangoSierra 'at' gmail 'dot' com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 10:34:10 AM EST
[ Parent ]
There are ways to save. One way is to buy a ticket before 6pm the previous evening.
Advance - Buy in advance, sold in limited numbers and subject to availability. These tickets are only valid on the date/train specified.      
Off-Peak - Buy any time, travel off-peak                      
Anytime - Buy any time, travel any time
Season - Unlimited travel between two stations for a specified period
Rovers and Rangers - Unlimited travel within a specified area. There may be a few time restrictions on when you can travel.
Railcards offer value for money if you travel by train, saving you at least 1/3 on rail fares. They cost from £18 to £26 each and are valid for 12 months. Our Railcards page shows more details. Take a look at our discounts page to see what other discounts are available.
Various discounts are cumulative, resulting in a Byzantine faer system. But it's still expensive.

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Wed Jun 1st, 2011 at 10:43:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Going to the Railways season ticket calculator, a Luton to central London monthly season ticket with area 1-6 tube card is £406.30, without the tube it's £326

Any idiot can face a crisis - it's day to day living that wears you out.
by ceebs (ceebs (at) eurotrib (dot) com) on Thu Jun 2nd, 2011 at 08:21:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Also, Luton is far worse than many of London's "unpopular" areas.

There are people out here who commute to London regularly - about 3-4 hours by car and 2 hours by train.

But if the mortgage doesn't get you the train fares will.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 05:01:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Jesus, just move somewhere in tube areas 4-6.

Economics is politics by other means
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 05:11:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Those times are both ways.

An hour into London isn't much worse than getting in from (say) the outer limits of Zone 6.

by ThatBritGuy (thatbritguy (at) googlemail.com) on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 05:20:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Just to take an extreme example, Chesham to Bank is an hour and fifteen minutes.

Brighton to Bank is an hour and nineteen.

Be nice to America. Or we'll bring democracy to your country.

by Drew J Jones (pedobear@pennstatefootball.com) on Fri Jun 3rd, 2011 at 08:22:16 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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