Display:
Migeru:
But then the definition shifts, so that it now refers to the power of the slave-owner. A `free' person becomes a person who has people they can do anything they want to

That later definition is in Herodotus too. Free are those who take slaves, un-free are those that are taken as slaves. I suspect Graeber is wrong about the order here, there is no point of defining "free" as not-slave unless there are slaves about.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 04:40:16 PM EST
[ Parent ]
But slaves are about because there are war prisoners, as he explains elsewhere in the linked texts.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 05:37:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
There I get for commenting before reading the book :)

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!
by A swedish kind of death on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 05:51:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Or the teaser interview I linked to elsewhere in this thread.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Jan 27th, 2012 at 06:03:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Now I have at least read the teaser and might better explain what I meant.

ZCommunications | Debt, Slavery and our Idea of Freedom (Part 1) by David Graeber | ZNet Article

That was something I had been vaguely aware of, but I hadn't realised, until I began researching, just how flagrant it was. In most human languages, the word for `freedom' means `the opposite of slavery'. Moses Finley pointed out a long time ago that it's not a coincidence that doctrines of political liberty tend to emerge from places where they have the most extreme forms of chattel slavery, whether it's ancient Athens or colonial Virginia, where Thomas Jefferson came from. But this is true on a much more profound level than I had ever imagined. In most societies a slave is essentially like the living dead: as a social person they've been killed. The idea is that they are someone who was captured in battle, their captive decided not to kill them (which he would have had every right to do), so essentially their previous life is gone and all they have left is a relation of total subordination to the person who was within his rights to kill them.

I suspect Graeber does not go far enough here, which is why he ends up with an "Originally freedom meant `not being a slave', and so referred to people who had social relations" and then "the definition shifts, so that it now refers to the power of the slave-owner". I suspect that free always meant being in the class that held slaves, in effect the winners side that got to take slaves. At least that is how I read Herodotos usage of word, and him writing in the 5th century BC he predated most of what we know of Roman history and culture.

Now I have to read the book to see if he backs that claim of an original meaning up and if so how.

A vote for PES is a vote for EPP! A vote for EPP is a vote for PES! Support the coalition, vote EPP-PES in 2009!

by A swedish kind of death on Sat Jan 28th, 2012 at 05:26:28 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Display:
Login
. Make a new account
. Reset password
Occasional Series