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It's bollocks aimed at ramping up the tension and the budget, as was that Saudi stunt.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky
by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 03:54:25 AM EST
[ Parent ]
this book argues that there has been an on-going war with Iran since the Khomeini inspired revolution in 1979

w.amazon.com/Secret-War-Iran-Clandestine-Dangerous/dp/1416577009/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=13280911 98&sr=8-1

and having read it, I have to say that the author has ha good point, Iran-contra and all.

and, having read it, I can tell you that out and out war with Iran would be extremely foolhardy

by stevesim on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 05:15:24 AM EST
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The editorial reviews don't inspire confidence. One says
Among the revelations certain to resonate in the U.S. is Bergman's contention that a secret file exists that proves unequivocally that George H.W. Bush surely knew about all the illegal goings-on in the Iran-Contra scandal--something Bush has always denied.
Which, even if true (the secret file, not the allegations, which seem plausible) is more likely to result in a collective shrug of the shoulders in the U.S. The other says
Some of the revelations here are startling, including Israeli cooperation with the regime of the late shah.
Startling? To whom? Ben-Gurion's Alliance of the periphery was certainly no secret.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 05:26:48 AM EST
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really?  a shrug of the shoulders?  really?  it was quite a shock to me.  
by stevesim on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 05:42:07 AM EST
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You're not typical. Most Americans probably don't even remember what Iran-Contra was..... My objection was with the assumption that this revelation would have an impact in U.S. politics, which I strongly doubt. I think I was convinced that  Bush was involved when he pardoned those directly responsible.
by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 05:48:23 AM EST
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most Americans have problems finding their own country on a world map

is that how you want to be judged?

by stevesim on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 05:52:33 AM EST
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Do you mean "world" as in "world series"? I suspect that a lot of americans could manage that. You'd have a hard time finding Fiji on such a map, though.

Otherwise, I think by now we're just debating the semantics of "resonate", a word that is vague enough that it shouldn't have been used in the first place.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 06:05:57 AM EST
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hmm.  that could be considered rather pedantic by some, don't you think?  

let's just say that Iran has been pushing back since 1979  and many events, such as the bombing of a synagogue in Argentina was payback by Iran to Israel, which most people don't even realize, in Fiji or in the USA, although I think Fijians can find their country on a world map

by stevesim on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 06:15:10 AM EST
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people here have so much knowledge and opinion to share that I find it a true waste to spend time arguing about pedantics, and I will be bold enough to pretend that you agree with me on this point.
by stevesim on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 06:33:45 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I do. My point was that the editorial reviews, which are supposed to present the best case for a book, instead give the impression that it's a bunch of conspiracy theories. If you want to convince us that it's worth reading, you'll have to make a better case than amazon does.

As for Iran, the war of the U.S on the Iranian people goes back further than Khomeni, to 1953. And the war of England on Iran goes back to 1872, at least. Iranians are probably aware of this, and for all I know there may still be an undercurrent of sympathy for the U.S., based on their role in the Constitutional Revolution.

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 06:44:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I am not responsible for the editorial blurbs for the book, but the book was quite good.

Heck, the war between Iran and the West really goes back to the time of the Persians, although we don't really acknowledge that, do we?

Just as we don't mention Iran in the war with Afghanistan, although there is a contest of wills there, to see which sphere of influence the country will fall under -  Iranian/Pakistani, Indian/USA

Let's argue about that instead

by stevesim on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 06:49:16 AM EST
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News to me re Iran/Pakistan.

Pakistan is predominantly Sunni and Iran predominantly Shia.

Iran were pretty co-operative with the US post-9/11 re Afghanistan, and I certainly don't see them as pro-Taleban, who regard the Shia' as apostates.

"Any economic unit can emit money. The serious problem is to get it accepted" Hyman Minsky

by ChrisCook (cojockathotmaildotcom) on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 08:08:50 AM EST
[ Parent ]
there are sections of Afghanistan and Pakistan that are ethnically identical to Iranian areas - the Balochi speaking areas.

then, there are the Pashtos which are mostly Afghan/Pakistani

If you haven't heard of the Indian-Pakistani fight for influence in Pakistan, I will look up a few references for you, but I thought it was pretty common knowledge

by stevesim on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 08:40:39 AM EST
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and wikipedia indicates that there is a significant population of Persian speakers in Afghanistan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_people

by stevesim on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 08:45:25 AM EST
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I believe they refer to the Farsi dialect in Afghanistan as Dari.

Fai de bèn a Bertrand, te lou rendra en cagant
by redstar on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 08:50:24 AM EST
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thanks.
by stevesim on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 09:17:48 AM EST
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stevesim:
the war between Iran and the West really goes back to the time of the Persians,

roman empire blowback!

~"When an inner situation is not made conscious, it appears outside as fate." Karl Jung~

by melo (melometa4(at)gmail.com) on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 08:35:23 AM EST
[ Parent ]
even earlier - Greeks vs Persians
by stevesim on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 08:41:36 AM EST
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and no, I mean world as world, le monde, die Erde, el mundò, 土 , Зе́мля
by stevesim on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 06:27:52 AM EST
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He said "in the U.S."  That's not you, right?

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 05:50:48 AM EST
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although I am flattered with these attempts at finding out more about me, I am warning you that these will be futile. I have told you as much about me as I am willing to divulge.
by stevesim on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 05:55:10 AM EST
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Definitely not an attempt to learn more, but rather to correct a misconception put about by yourself. You earlier claimed to be residing in France near Strasbourg and, in an unrelated post, said you were not American.  So when someone says those in the U.S. would shrug, and you reply that you would NOT shrug, the implication of your reply is that you spoke as a USAian.

No, not asking for more.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 06:21:24 AM EST
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hmm.  you also asked me about three times which Finnish owned company I had worked for which I found very intrusive the first time.
by stevesim on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 06:25:09 AM EST
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And had you mentioned the FIRST time rather than waiting until now to mention that you considered the question an intrusion, the question wouldn't have been repeated. I'm used to less game playing and more straight-out adult behavior in communications on Eurotrib than I've been witnessing from you.  

Which of course still leaves me wondering why you should get the benefit of posting that you 'didn't know I was with the FBI' but that you're not American, then coming back in a post to someone else making a point as an American. Can't have it both ways and remain credible.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher

by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 06:35:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Oh, and if you reply to this, I promise that you'll have had the last word.

'tis strange I should be old and neither wise nor valiant. From "The Maid's Tragedy" by Beaumont & Fletcher
by Wife of Bath (kareninaustin at g mail dot com) on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 06:37:14 AM EST
[ Parent ]
when someone doesn't respond after the first time, most people will usually let it drop
by stevesim on Wed Feb 1st, 2012 at 06:50:02 AM EST
[ Parent ]

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