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Few Swedes ready to work until they're 75: poll - The Local

An overwhelming majority of Swedes disagree with Swedish prime minister Fredrik Reinfeldt's suggestion that workers should be ready to stay on the job until they are 75, a new poll shows.

In a survey carried out by the Novus polling firm for Sweden's TV4, 73 percent answered no when asked if they thought Sweden's retirement age should be raised to 75.

Twenty percent of those polled supported the idea, while 7 percent were uncertain.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Wed Feb 8th, 2012 at 02:06:56 PM EST
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you know, some sort of work for older people would probably be a good idea but it would have to really be tailored to each individual's capacity and willingness to work, and the labour market is not designed to do that now, so I doubt it will be in the future.

getting out and about, mixing with others, having contact with young children in some way would probably prolong people's lives.

one just cannot depend on the free market to take people's frailties into account, because it exploits them, it doesn't work around them.

by stevesim on Wed Feb 8th, 2012 at 04:33:36 PM EST
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The problem is that you need an income. If there is a system that provides an income to people as they taper off their working hours, then they can do that. Few retired people just sit around watching TV, they do stuff like volunteer or teach or work part time.

If there is no income replacement system, then people have to work at regular full time jobs until they keel over. The idea that "we don't do manual labor any more so we can do it until age 75" or "people live longer now so they can work longer" are disconnected from reality. Increasing life expectancy by reducing the neonatal death rate, which is what is happening, has little to do with people working longer.

by asdf on Wed Feb 8th, 2012 at 06:15:30 PM EST
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First the women's movement was co-opted by the corporations to inflate the labor supply, and now medical technology will be used as an excuse to do it again, accompanied by the insidious notion that you are useless unless you're working for a corporation somewhere (or have substantial wealth). Keep people focused on surviving, punish them for being 'non-productive', and keep the rewards for their work short-term, with little long-term security or purpose.
Regardless of the pandering 'family values' clap-trap, we are increasingly defined as economic units, not citizens or families or human beings.
by Andhakari on Thu Feb 9th, 2012 at 04:08:12 AM EST
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but work is not just an economic necessity.  it brings rewards such as interaction with others, feelings of accomplishments, necessity to learn new things, even just movement from one place to another....
by stevesim on Thu Feb 9th, 2012 at 07:33:34 AM EST
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If you remove the need to do work in order to eat, then people will do less unfulfilling or mind-numbing things with their time.

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 9th, 2012 at 10:53:41 AM EST
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I disagree.  It will depend on the person.  Some people like to be intellectually challenged, others, physically challenged.  Some people crave contact with others, or with children.  I have a friend who is obsessed with esthetician stuff and she does this for free on her friends, just so she can have the pleasure of performing these activities.

We as a society have tended to equate any type of effort with economic survival, so we tend to overlook the other aspects of activity which can bring benefits.

by stevesim on Thu Feb 9th, 2012 at 11:54:20 AM EST
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Your friend does not do the work in order to eat, then?

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 9th, 2012 at 12:00:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]
she does it to earn money when she can, and when she wants to, to have fun, so for both reasons.  Although since her partner has a good job, it's mostly to get out of the house, feel she has some independence, etc.  

She reads up on new techniques, attends courses, and is really, really into anything that is associated with it.  

by stevesim on Thu Feb 9th, 2012 at 12:04:49 PM EST
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So, how does this example contradict my If you remove the need to do work in order to eat, then people will do less unfulfilling or mind-numbing things with their time ?

tens of millions of people stand to see their lives ruined because the bureaucrats at the ECB don't understand introductory economics -- Dean Baker
by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Thu Feb 9th, 2012 at 12:06:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
oops, sorry.  I misread.  I thought you meant people are only challenged to do things when they are paid to do them.
by stevesim on Thu Feb 9th, 2012 at 12:10:22 PM EST
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Only because our society is set up so that for most people work is the only practical way of getting those things.

I mean, seriously, if you were going to choose your interactions with others, how you achieved your feeling of accomplishment or choose where and how to move you wouldn't do any of them in the way most jobs demand.

I've avoided having a real job for decades now for exactly that reason. And because I can, just about.

by Colman (colman at eurotrib.com) on Thu Feb 9th, 2012 at 01:05:13 PM EST
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Few people anywhere would want to work until they're 75 would they? Many older people I've met are rather complacent about their jobs, are no longer giving it 100%, and would really rather be elsewhere. Whatever joy they found in their work a decade before, has come and gone.

I must admit, I'm really confused on this issue. The government wants its citizens to stay on the job longer, yet older workers continue to get the boot. When jobs do appear, older candidates aren't even considered. What part of this makes sense? Why not hire an energetic young workforce (who desperately need jobs to prepare for their own future) straight out of school with the requisite skills, train them the way you need them to do the job at hand (preferably using your best workers to do the training). The amount saved by hiring young people could be used to provide retirement benefits to the older folks who really don't want to be working at all. Wouldn't this be a fairer, more equitable solution, rather than having us old folk work until we drop?

From a personal standpoint I'm quite enjoying my retirement. I view it as yet another dimension of my life. It provides time for hobbies, reflections, and learning new things. Things I never had time for in the hustle bustle of working since age 15. Maybe these hobby ideas will spawn into a money making idea someday, and maybe they won't. Money isn't everything and once you've got your fill of possessions you get over that too. I'm happy just living on my savings and Social Security and would rather find creative ways to adjust my needs and wants downward if necessary. But then again, that's just me and my opinion FWIW.

by sgr2 on Thu Feb 9th, 2012 at 08:01:37 AM EST
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