European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch -13 April | 82 comments (82 topical, editorial, 0 hidden)

New elections in Greece could affect reforms | Europe | DW.DE | 12.04.2012

Greece will see elections on May 6. With tough austerity measures, dramatic cuts in social programs and little prospect of improvement, the new government will face major challenges.
Just six months after taking up his post, Greek Prime Minister Lucas Papademos declared his resignation on April 11, paving the way for general elections on May 6. During his brief time in office, a 130-billion-euro bailout package from international lenders saved Greece from bankruptcy. The price for that: painful cuts for Greeks and tough austerity measures. Experts from abroad are now wondering whether the nation will be able to continue with promised reforms.

Ad astra per aspera

by In Wales (inwales aaat eurotrib.com) on Thu Apr 12th, 2012 at 04:19:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economy and Finance (4.00 / 3)

What does "saved Greece from bankruptcy" mean? How do they define bankruptcy? How has Greece not gone bankrupt?

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Thu Apr 12th, 2012 at 07:01:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economy and Finance (none / 0)

To these people, bankruptcy means "retaining the ability to meet your debt repayments"

The fact that the conditions have trashed the place, rendering it economically ruined, isn't their concern.

They live in a place so remote from the world I imagine they think you should be grateful.

keep to the Fen Causeway

by Helen (lareinagal at yahoo dot co dot uk) on Fri Apr 13th, 2012 at 03:11:42 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economy and Finance (4.00 / 2)

The fact that the debt was restructured with a haircut of 80% or so and that CDS were triggered as the restructuring was sufficiently "involuntary" apparently doesn't mean it's a bankruptcy according to Deutsche Welle?

There are three stories about the euro crisis: the Republican story, the German story, and the truth. -- Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 13th, 2012 at 03:37:08 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economy and Finance (none / 0)

Yes, that's what I meant. I don't expect them to actually understand or care about the internal, social bankruptcy, but the PSI deal is by any reasonable definition a bankruptcy. A soft and controlled bankruptcy perhaps (though I'd wait a few months before calling it), but a bankruptcy nonetheless...

The road of excess leads to the palace of wisdom - William Blake

by talos (mihalis at gmail dot com) on Fri Apr 13th, 2012 at 05:57:41 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economy and Finance (none / 0)

The restructuring of General Motors was also a bankruptcy, but some people insist on calling it a bailout.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 13th, 2012 at 06:09:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economy and Finance (none / 0)

<sigh>

That's what passes for serious reporting...

There are three stories about the euro crisis: the Republican story, the German story, and the truth. -- Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 13th, 2012 at 03:35:13 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economy and Finance (none / 1)

That is simply the standard MSM narrative. How much longer journalists can go on tritely serving it up I don't know. Credibility starts to be strained when economies the size of Spain and Italy need to be "saved". Around me (admittedly among people who make some effort to understand what's going on) the notion that France will be on the list is gaining currency. At some point the MSM standard story will look so La-La-Land that the purveyors of narratives will have to come up with a new one.

Any ideas on what it will be?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Apr 13th, 2012 at 05:00:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economy and Finance (none / 0)

Any ideas on what it will be?

Everything was going fine until the Greeks voted for the Communists?

by gk (g k quattro due due sette "at" gmail.com) on Fri Apr 13th, 2012 at 05:04:20 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economy and Finance (none / 1)

Around me (admittedly among people who make some effort to understand what's going on) the notion that France will be on the list is gaining currency.

This is like watching a slow-motion snailwreck.

There are three stories about the euro crisis: the Republican story, the German story, and the truth. -- Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 13th, 2012 at 05:39:41 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economy and Finance (none / 1)

What do you truly expect? What we are discussing here is the false narrative imposed by the media and the political world. How are most ordinary people (supposing they can be bothered, or don't subscribe to other magical narratives such as are provided by religions) supposed to see past that?

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Apr 13th, 2012 at 05:58:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economy and Finance (4.00 / 2)

It's impossible. According to gk's account of the NY Fed's educational material:

The Fed gets the economy going again by reducing interest rates so that people will spend. Some of the other people on the tour had a hard time understanding why this will get people who are unemployed or are afraid of become unemployed to spend more. Amazing how hard it is for normal people to understand economics

It is heartening that people find the official narrative had to understand, because it's like creationism in natural history. However, the weight of authority will lead them to strenuously attempt to convince themselves of the correctness of the Fed's educational material. They will "learn" economics and be lost to rational policymaking.

Unfortunately, just like Nigel Farage is gaining a good reputation among foreigners who don't know his ugly party because of his tirades in the European Parliament denouncing the authorities for their folly, today I saw Marine Le Pen quoted as saying "we live under the religion of the Euro - nobody debates with heretics" as part of her campaign to present herself as the anti-establishment candidate and appealing to the youth vote.

When even the German Pirate Party is attempting to solidify its growth in the polls by putting together a "position" and the position they choose is the standard narrative, what hope is there for mainstream parties to think radically about a solution to the present crisis?

There are three stories about the euro crisis: the Republican story, the German story, and the truth. -- Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 13th, 2012 at 06:08:27 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economy and Finance (none / 0)

Indeed. Political positioning derives from analysis of the "available" range of political positions, and not from analysis of the real situation.

by afew (afew(a in a circle)eurotrib_dot_com) on Fri Apr 13th, 2012 at 07:20:19 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economy and Finance (none / 0)

people find the official narrative hard to understand

There are three stories about the euro crisis: the Republican story, the German story, and the truth. -- Paul Krugman

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 13th, 2012 at 08:30:48 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Economy and Finance (none / 1)

Hey, look, the Greek Crisis is the workers' fault!

Tassos Giannitsis, Interior Minister of Greece's current interim government, likewise believes that Greece will continue to follow through with reforms after May elections. In response to major protests by unions and party colleagues, Giannitsis was forced to resign in 2000 as Secretary of Labor and Social Welfare. He had proposed a reform package that, among other things, would raise the age for retirement and liberalize the job market. Had those proposals been passed, Greece would be in a much different situation right now.

guaranteed to evoke a violent reaction from police is to challenge their right to "define the situation." --- David Graeber citing Marc Cooper

by Migeru (migeru at eurotrib dot com) on Fri Apr 13th, 2012 at 06:18:31 PM EST
[ Parent ]

European Salon de News, Discussion et Klatsch -13 April | 82 comments (82 topical, 0 editorial, 0 hidden)

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